"I'm a sovereign human being, I stand under common law only" - Thread of Freemen

tbf this is not actually justification for a cop to shoot someone

no one said it was

Sharp said he got out and dared authorities to shoot him as he approached with his hands raised.

“He’s like, just shoot me then, just shoot me — and they did, they shot him dead,” Sharp said. “They shot him right there, he was just walking — I saw it. I swear to God, he was just walking with his hands in the air.”

Officers shot him three more times after he fell to the ground, Sharp said.

A former FBI hostage negotiator said Finicum, who had said he would rather die than go to jail, fit the profile for a person who wished to commit “suicide by cop.”

this is not what i call "pulling shit" fyi

yeah not good

saying just shoot me to a cop when you've been illegally occupying a federal building for weeks is pulling some shit

also keep in mind these are preliminary reports

as if we can't guess what the cop version of the story is going to be

So now one story says he was "charging at" the police and another says he was walking with hands in the air. Neither being an official story and both claiming to be witnesses. I'd choose to believe the story that doesn't serve the interests of the occupiers, who would love to portray it as cold-blooded murder.

i tend to believe quite honestly that law enforcement was told to not to anything to provoke or "martyr" these folks, but at the same time idk.

why walk toward the cops? how does that make sense? you're in a forest, you're busted. put your hands on your head and sit the fuck down.

maybe he thought they had snacks

i don't think there's much point trying to game this out in our heads

idk did the guy have a history of being violent or claiming he wouldn't be taken alive? do we even know if these guys are armed? it's not like they've threatened violence against law enforcement right? definite possibility this is problematic

good to recall that direct threats were made early on that attempted arrests would be met with deadly force.

He very specifically said in an interview that he was prepared to die because he couldn't live in a cell. xp

has Aragorn arrived with the Army of the Dead yet

idk did the guy have a history of being violent or claiming he wouldn't be taken alive? do we even know if these guys are armed? it's not like they've threatened violence against law enforcement right? definite possibility this is problematic

yes, yes, and they have.

I'm not discounting the possibility that the shooting could have been problematic though.

totally^^

I mean we're talking about cops on one hand and high-strung gun nuts on the other.

idk i think if law enforcement had just sent these guys the right essay this whole thing could be over w/, applied force is never the solution w/ these guys, they won't listen to force, they'll only listen to reason

trigger happy cops are a bigger national problem than white militia paranoids

trigger happy cops are a bigger national problem than white militia paranoids

they're both a huge problem. don't see what difference it makes which is the bigger problem.

two creeks, same river

sure. many in the militias are ex cop, ex military

He very specifically said in an interview that he was prepared to die because he couldn't live in a cell. xp

― how's life, Wednesday, January 27, 2016 1:37 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is exactly why he shouldn't have been shot

which is why some folks in the gov't wanted to investigate the militias because theyre being reinforced by military types, but the nice people in the GOP defunded it because it wasnt sufficiently respectful of the military. or some bullshit.

yeah, i read something about that yesterday

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2011/inside-dhs-former-top-analyst-says-agency-bowed-political-pressure

Say what you want about white supremacists, but The Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord is a supremely catchy name for a group.

I think I saw them open for the Doobie Brothers back in 73.

http://www.terminateshere.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/covenantswordarmofthelord.jpg

this livestream is a treat

I've been away from wifi for a few hours. Anything good happening?

the camera is showing a background scene of the landscape, with occasional verbal interjections about the constitution. there is the sound of heavy machinery being used in the background, so maybe they decided to dig a toilet pit?

sounds like these guys are trying to recreate their normal lives as much as possible

More like digging defensive trenches and generally tearing up the place as if they owned it. God, I hope they are made to pay reparations out of their puny prison wages.

have any of the links with eyewitness testimony that contradicts the "just shoot me" story surfaced here yet?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/eyewitnesses-knock-down-conspiracy-theories-about-lavoy-finicum-dying-with-his-hands-up/

(sorry for Raw Story)

why can't this dude figure out how to adjust the camera without standing directly in front of it? he also doesn't understand pointing out landmarks in the background

Mr. Patrick [one of the people left at the refuge], who said he had had only snatches of sleep, would not commit to staying at the refuge. “I’m committed to going to breakfast,” he said.

somehow this phrase seems incredibly funny to me, given the seriousness of the events

yeah that's perfect

The complaint and supporting affidavit filed by the US Attorney's Office:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/296875147/US-v-Bundy-Complaint-and-Affidavit

(TL; DR)

Wuz Talking to Dr C., who seems to think I was rooting for excessive force

― a (waterface), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:33 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thread's obviously moved on, for obvious reasons, but fwiw it felt more like you were bending over backwards to justify excessive force, using a bunch of stock justifications i've grown really weary of hearing in recent months (cop feels threatened, victim was asking for it, people should know better etc.). i guess in the context of a thread where we're kind of here to mock tinfoil people who set out to make videos like that babbling their incoherent logic, that did feel like rooting for the excessive force. but if that's not what you were going for, my bad.

But Finicum, with police in hot pursuit, attempted to leave the main road and drove into a snow bank. When he emerged from the vehicle, FBI and state police ordered him to surrender. That’s when, authorities say, Finicum reached down toward his waistband where he had a gun.

there it is

maybe he was reaching for a snack

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/631498/thumbs/o-BANANA-GUN-570.jpg?4

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/03/waistbands_n_6791990.html

sorry, that was maybe a little too "trenchant social commentary". I'm pretty willing to believe it in this case, but that phrasing has obviously been used before in sinister circumstances.

we know

"trigger happy cops are a bigger national problem than white militia paranoids"
"they're both a huge problem. don't see what difference it makes which is the bigger problem."

cops are a WAY bigger problem. they have a legal right to fuck with you and always get the benefit of the doubt if they injure/kill you. militia dudes usually stay away from most people. they like to hide out in their kingdoms. they are afraid of everything. which makes them theoretically dangerous, but, like most americans, they usually only end up hurting their own friends and family.

^^^