"I'm a sovereign human being, I stand under common law only" - Thread of Freemen

As for the courtroom guy with the "not for hire" "conveyance," didn't that look like a decommissioned police car? It had the pointable spotlight in front of the driver and generally looked police-issue. I think a lot of these guys would be cops if they could, despite their anti-authoritarian stance.

It's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks.

look, don't get me wrong about the courthouse guy, i don't justify the taser thing, but it reminds me of another motto that i live by which is: avoid all pain that is 100% avoidable. if you fuck with a bear in its den bad things can happen. which is why you should stay away from all police stations, courthouses, drug houses, and militia compounds unless you have a really good reason for being in one. and if you want to change your stupid country or whatever do it from home with a fiery letter-writing campaign.

yup.

i'm sure at some juncture in my life i'd be with you, rooting for the officer using excessive force against the dumbass -

i haven't rooted for anyone here. just saying, i'm not surprised at the outcome.

Roughly speaking, how many people here do you reckon are surprised at the outcome?

Over the courtroom guy or the Oregon militia dudes?

I'm never pleased when someone gets killed, especially by federal agents or state officers, but hearing that the lone fatality last night was the guy who sat underneath a blue tarp with a rifle and addressed reporters, well. My heart's in a different place this morning than it was after the Tamir Rice verdict.

Roughly speaking, how many people here do you reckon are surprised at the outcome?

Wuz Talking to Dr C., who seems to think I was rooting for excessive force

I'm never pleased when someone gets killed, especially by federal agents or state officers, but hearing that the lone fatality last night was the guy who sat underneath a blue tarp with a rifle and addressed reporters, well. My heart's in a different place this morning than it was after the Tamir Rice verdict.

Yup.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/27/lavoy-finicum-ore-occupier-who-said-hed-rather-die-than-go-to-jail-did-just-that/

With his shaved head and soft voice, Robert “LaVoy” Finicum resembled a monk — albeit a monk wearing a Stetson and packing a Colt .45 pistol on his hip.

And like a monk, Finicum waxed poetic when asked earlier this month if he was prepared to die rather than go to jail for illegally occupying a federal wildlife refuge in rural Oregon.

“Absolutely,” he told NBC’s Tony Dokoupil on Jan. 5. “I have been raised in the country all my life. I love dearly to feel the wind on my face, to see the sun rise, to see the moon in the night. I have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box.”

Given the number of bullshit police shootings that happen on a regular basis, it's been an embarrassment that these jackasses have been able to occupy a federal anything with brandished weapons, making threats and otherwise just being assholes. I don't know why this took so long, ending as it did or not.

With his shaved head and cowboy hat, Robert “LaVoy” Finicum resembled Max Hardcore.

so the problem isn't that the police didn't kill anyone, it's that they didn't kill anyone quickly enough

I don't know why this took so long, ending as it did or not.

Feds don't want another Waco

And they really don't want another Oklahoma City bombing

The latter hypothetical is still in play; psychos don't need to provoked. As for the former, I get that. But they still should have arrested them weeks ago. We don't know who shot first, but this far along, with a bunch of people with guns surrounded by a bunch of people with guns, violence seemed pretty inevitable. Because guns. Were they supposed to live there forever? Because someone was eventually going to get shot. Statistically one of them would have probably accidentally shot themselves or one of their cohort, if not an onlooker.

We don't know who shot first

FBI/local law enforcement stopped the Bundys while they were en route to a meeting an hour or so away from Burns
Tarp man was in a separate car, sped away, ran into a snowbank, then charged at law enforcement
Where they were stopped is in a dense, wooded area far away from the public (I believe) so less likely to have civilians shot accidentally, taken hostage, etc

https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/10154667085229762/?pnref=story

From his book, ONLY BY BLOOD AND SUFFERING

http://i.imgur.com/gfk1cu0.png

Funny he mentions power lines since I'm pretty sure this isn't how you change the light bulb on one of these things.

http://i.imgur.com/K3cQ22a.jpg

"he was not a mormon. to me, he was handsome"

whoa rude

Chas Pierce: "There's a martyr now around whom to rally. There are people in jail around whom to rally. There's a cause for the feeble-minded and the politically delusionary to embrace. There is a wildness in our politics, and the fringes are expanding almost by the day."

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41556/oregon-militiamen-captured-one-dead/

has there ever NOT been a wildness in u.s. politics...???

unfortunate that they used this to charge them:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/felony_charge_against_refuge_o.html#incart_maj-story-1

iirc there are plenty of other crimes that would apply instead of this thought crime nonsense

"You have an obligation to proceed to the Harney County Resource Center (the wildlife refuge) immediately," Hunt wrote. "If you fail to arrive, you will demonstrate by your own actions that your previous statements to defend life, liberty, and property were false."

o shit they've proclaimed a caliphate

http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/5927274_1_l.jpg

I was thinking about ridiculous moves that could be done to make this someone else's problem, and inspired by these assholes desecrating ground and rifling through native american artifacts... just give that part of the refuge to the local tribal council government

then turn a blind eye to whatever might happen!

there's no way anyone wants these idiots to be their responsibility to deal with, though

These arrests are not the last step in the Malheur wildlife refuge situation. Now we'll get all the out-of-state crazies jumping in their pickup trucks and heading for Oregon with their arsenals of weapons and ammo, looking for a rumble. My heart goes out to the good people of Harney county who've been enduring this shitstorm of imported stupidity. It will probably get worse before it gets better.

i'm reminded of the flypaper theory of iraq

uh, is anyone watching this live feed from inside the standoff? http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/watch-live-feed-from-inside-the-standoff-at-oregon-wildlife-refuge

i'm listening to it one ear as i work and it's fascinating. some of them appear to be recording their final statements for their family.

then you have little snippets of conversation like "we came, we were peaceful....and now we're gonna fuck shit up", followed by some old guy going "yes sir"

they're discussing when they should go to the bathroom. one guy just said he's been known to shit himself

i bet all of this is actually very similar to off the record founding father conversations

o_O

oh boy

we came we were peaceful and now i'm gonna shit myself

I skipped around in that. Sounded like one guy was recording a statement for his family. Heard a little bit of a discussion about how geese don't know which way to fly because the government's so screwed up. Then I found a little discussion about who was going to go poop and then relieve some other guys who had to go poop. xp lol

they just started talking about who is pooping again. also some guy is complaining that he can't believe his sister is there, given how much she complains about the world

they're holding out hope that some militia will come and reinforce them in time for...something. but they don't know how far away the militia is

sounds like a gas

"When the shootin' starts get that camera rollin'"

"we left a video with him as to what we want done with our remains."

(this is around 19:40)

"how well do you think they can hear us from here?", says one of the guys who likes to talk about poop, about 10 feet from the camera, clearly audible.
tech guy: "not too good"

Now these addled cowboys will feel justified in totally trashing the refuge HQ because that's what you do in a war, you grab and smash and shoot whoever you want. I would love to see them all captured alive, then sentenced to 300 years apiece in federal prison, where they can stew in their own pseudo-constitutional juice.

my buddy is a cameraman for a news channel and he was up there, he told me there was an Inf0Wars guy there who was telling all the other media guys they were sheep or whatever, couldn't be trusted to be neutral, then would stand BEHIND the bundy crew at the podium nodding along with everything they said, arms folded.

here is the current live feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-rdXj9xrGI

This is significantly less exciting than Balloon Boy, as far as live feeds go.

friend on FB points out:

"Tell me you didn't livestream that" says voice just off camera after ten minutes of hearing him discuss how to respond to law enforcement and how they need to set up their defensive parameter.

One doesn't expect the brightest of bulbs to be running the show at this point.

Dude is calling a buddy trying to arrange for his dogs to be removed. Turns out the guy he's calling was there when they shot the one guy. Asks him why he's not out there shooting them sunsabitches.

Oh my god these people are dumb.

https://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/11/8/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31182-1352416174-1.gif

https://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/11/8/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31123-1352415867-5.gif