xp to gbx:
well, yeah. i think that my point (at least towards the bottom of this thread) is that there's still majorly awful shit going down against gays both in the US and especially elsewhere, and that a normalizing force such as marriage is not going to just swoop all those problems away. additionally, the oppression and subjugation that gays have faced since...well, since the Protestant Reformation, is also not some sort of societal antique that could never come back.
― the table is the table, Friday, 10 April 2009 02:43 (fifteen years ago) link
no i can appreciate that. btw i'm not sure how to dovetail this with those dancehall threads, but man i can't help but think they're......relevant?
― i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Friday, 10 April 2009 02:45 (fifteen years ago) link
i need to eat right now and go to the studio to finish a paper, but i just wanted to say that this thread has helped me rethink and change my opinions on some things, and that it has done so without getting overly insulting. so thanks for engaging.
― the table is the table, Friday, 10 April 2009 02:46 (fifteen years ago) link
the history of gays people with money 'claiming' a neighborhood and then gentrifying it is so long it would make your head spin
― Nurse Detrius (Eric H.), Friday, 10 April 2009 05:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Table has a point though in that it often starts with homosexes and sundry bohemians--who make it a desirable place to live--before the rich people roll in.
― HOOS talking about magic & spells & steen dude! (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 10 April 2009 05:59 (fifteen years ago) link
cf John Leland etc
― HOOS talking about magic & spells & steen dude! (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 10 April 2009 06:00 (fifteen years ago) link
Have you thought about the fact that the US is not the only country where gay marriage is an issue, there are several countries ie Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, South Africa and Sweden. The countries of those I've visited Belgium, Spain, Sweden, Netherlands, are really open countries where I did not notice the gated communities of Gays with Lexus'.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 10 April 2009 10:18 (fifteen years ago) link
Also Table, just as I would not like to have rights not permitted to me for the religio-conservative mindset of others, I wouldn't like to be disenfranchised for you to live out you some Dennis Cooper fantasy of subversive fagdom.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 10 April 2009 10:23 (fifteen years ago) link
i wonder if i should actually read this thread ever
― Surmounter, Friday, 10 April 2009 10:40 (fifteen years ago) link
xpgay marriage is legal in Sweden, it's just not clear yet whether or not it will be in church.
― sonderangerbot, Friday, 10 April 2009 10:40 (fifteen years ago) link
too zombified to read it :/
― FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Friday, 10 April 2009 10:50 (fifteen years ago) link
haha, not that I'm the marryin' kind!
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 10 April 2009 11:32 (fifteen years ago) link
take, for example, when i went to a screening of 'Milk' at the Castro Theater. in line with many men (and some women), many of whom were married or had been planning to get married, i was confronted by a cohort of gays wearing matching shirts passing out fliers that warned people of 'dangerous elements' (read: homeless, mostly African-American or hispanic men) in the neighborhood that would 'steal your valuables and holiday gifts' from your car or your person. the racist and classist overtones inherent in this act are disgusting imho-- gays should be working with the downtrodden and indigent, not trying to eliminate such from view for fear that they'll steal the modernist lamp-set in the trunk of the volvo.
This has been dealt with sufficiently, right? No need for me to bring up arguments that have already been run? (I skim-read the thread after this.)
― maybe u should tell that to your laughing vagina (HI DERE), Friday, 10 April 2009 13:58 (fifteen years ago) link
pretty much iirc
― k3vin k., Friday, 10 April 2009 14:01 (fifteen years ago) link
gays should be working with the downtrodden and indigent, not trying to eliminate such from view for fear that they'll steal the modernist lamp-set in the trunk of the volvo.
http://cockingasnook.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/medium_umbridge.jpg
― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 April 2009 14:02 (fifteen years ago) link
As far as the idea that gays, as a group, are any more well-to-do than society as a whole, I already spelled it out in the gay thread:
I would assume this is due to the fact that it's much easier, due to cultural factors and a greater economic safety net, for economically advantaged queers to be openly so than for their economically disadvantaged counterparts. Thusly, in a set of openly queer people, the economically advantaged are going to be overrepresented.
― The-Reverend (rev), Friday, 10 April 2009 15:25 (fifteen years ago) link
fwiw, guys, you should attend to table's last comment iirc
― i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Friday, 10 April 2009 15:43 (fifteen years ago) link
group hug
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 10 April 2009 15:53 (fifteen years ago) link
the conflict, in some ways, is that i think these rights are obvious and self-evident, and shouldn't even have to be bestowed by the state, as if they were some sort of gift.
i've heard far right/libertarian dudes say they were in favor of gay marriage because of this reason...or more specifically they were against the government controlling marriage and charging money for marriage licenses etc, therefore anyone could and should be able to get married.
― d20 riot tard (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 10 April 2009 15:59 (fifteen years ago) link
Nah, I gotta help the poor and indigent first.
JUST KIDDING (hugs, table)
― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 April 2009 15:59 (fifteen years ago) link
I think its weird to argue that "rights" somehow exist independent of a legal framework.
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 10 April 2009 16:00 (fifteen years ago) link
(x-post)
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 10 April 2009 16:01 (fifteen years ago) link
I mean the law is the framework that gives the term "rights" meaning - without the ability to appeal to an agreed-upon legal framework, what constitutes a "right" is essentially meaningless.
Ah, we're entering Hannah Arendt territiory here.
― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 April 2009 16:41 (fifteen years ago) link
really? I thought we were just getting started on Derrida.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 10 April 2009 16:45 (fifteen years ago) link
i think our thoughts should turn to gay divorce
― velko, Friday, 10 April 2009 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link
lol
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 10 April 2009 16:57 (fifteen years ago) link
we should have the right!
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 10 April 2009 16:58 (fifteen years ago) link
When Rod met Maggie. How you say, 'odd.'
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Tomorrow's the day for Iowa, right?
― Nurse Detrius (Eric H.), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Rod Dreher: Maggie, you and I are on the same side of the gay marriage issue, but I am pessimistic about our chances for success. You, however, are optimistic. What am I missing?
Maggie Gallagher: Vaclav Havel mostly. ...
― I think no pants is sexy. (Matt P), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:10 (fifteen years ago) link
thank you maggie gallagher for the cool new display name!
― Vaclav Havel mostly. (Matt P), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:11 (fifteen years ago) link
Rod Dreher: I don't understand why so few people grasp the religious liberty implications of gay marriage.
Do these people even have a brain? What if my religion happened to believe that straight marriage was illegal? I'd love to hear a logical, rational explanation of what these "implications" are.
― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:20 (fifteen years ago) link
Here's another howler:
But the two most important messages I've been telling people: 1. Marriage matters because children need a mom and dad. And 2. Gay marriage is going to effect a lot of people besides Adam and Steve.
Both wrong. 1. If a kid doesnt have a mother and father, what happens, he spontaneously combusts? And 2 doesn't even need to be addressed it's so stupid.
― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:23 (fifteen years ago) link
People are always posting links from weird websites, why were you reading that in the first place Ned?
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:33 (fifteen years ago) link
Ned is an avid follower of Maggie Gallagher.
― I can sit in my car all day, and that doesn't make me a car. (HI DERE), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link
I like it when she smashes watermelons.
― Your heartbeat soun like sasquatch feet (polyphonic), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:38 (fifteen years ago) link
she swings a mean Bible
― I can sit in my car all day, and that doesn't make me a car. (HI DERE), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:39 (fifteen years ago) link
She was soooo cute as the baker in that Will Ferrell movie!
― display names have been changed to protect the innocent (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:42 (fifteen years ago) link
In this case, that was linked from Andrew Sullivan's site, not that he can't be any less weird about other things. But Dreher I've kept an irregular eye for a while because he is the self-described 'crunchy con,' a term he invented. (Seems to boil down to: Conservatives, eat organic! Otherwise, steady as she goes.)
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link
She was brittle and hilarious as the mother of Robin Williams' son in The Birdcage
― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:43 (fifteen years ago) link
wasn't that Christine Baranski, I'm not following this thread
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link
I got so far into that article thinking it was Maggie Gyllenhaal.
― Nurse Detrius (Eric H.), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 21:08 (fifteen years ago) link
And then I stopped reading.
Maggie Gyllenhaal probably has her own stories.
― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 21:08 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/14/ny.same.sex.marriage/index.html
― I can sit in my car all day, and that doesn't make me a car. (HI DERE), Tuesday, 14 April 2009 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Moran citied Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, a Mormon Republican who has called for the adoption of civil unions,
??? wtf! can someone explain this to me
― shit was shocking as fuck back then (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 16 April 2009 22:50 (fifteen years ago) link
― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
every time i read this woman's name for just a second i think it refers to the other one
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 16 April 2009 22:54 (fifteen years ago) link
So uh what do you guys think about "opposite marriage"?
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 02:29 (fifteen years ago) link
You know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that an opposite marriage should be between a man and a ghost, which is I think I believe an "opposite man." No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised. A ghost is an empty soul, where a man once lived.
― asplundh tree expert co. (iiiijjjj), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 02:34 (fifteen years ago) link