thanks, gonna dig into that when I have time.
I am sympathetic to the "costs of distribution" argument in terms of reforming net metering, but as you note the retroactive penalty was where the PUC really fucked up in NV.
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Saturday, 23 January 2016 05:39 (eight years ago) link
CA PUC smarter than NV PUC:
http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Solar-companies-and-customers-win-big-in-6790872.php
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 28 January 2016 20:11 (eight years ago) link
great news
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Thursday, 28 January 2016 21:29 (eight years ago) link
congress looking into some pre-emptive legislation forbidding retroactive net metering changes:
http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/us-senators-move-to-preserve-solar-net-metering-through-energy-bill-amendment_100023050/#axzz3z6VXCpq9
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Thursday, 4 February 2016 16:06 (eight years ago) link
Hope that passes, good on them. Murkowski being in charge is of course disgusting and counterproductive.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 4 February 2016 16:56 (eight years ago) link
Ah but when everyone has a telsa powerwall the grid will no longer be of any concern!
― Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Thursday, 24 March 2016 13:43 (eight years ago) link
incorrect, those batteries don't store enough power to run a house, the stored power is used for peak shaving and load reduction
they also quietly discontinued the larger model last week:
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Tesla-Discontinues-10kWh-Powerwall-Home-Battery
cuz guess what? they are just too expensive.
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Thursday, 24 March 2016 14:16 (eight years ago) link
sad lol
someone really needs to crack this battery storage issue
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 March 2016 19:44 (eight years ago) link
i'm probably going to do a solar lease. I know this doesn't give me the tax benefits purchase would do, but I already owe the IRS money so on a monthly basis leasing saves me more. I'm guessing that CA already worked out the issues that are plaguing NV and ruining the industry for them over there.
― akm, Thursday, 24 March 2016 19:46 (eight years ago) link
recent CA PUC ruling preserving net metering is posted upthread
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 March 2016 19:50 (eight years ago) link
oddly I JUST NOW got a CREDO email saying that they are challenging that. Fuckers.
― akm, Thursday, 24 March 2016 19:53 (eight years ago) link
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/08/utilities-net-metering-decision/
so not gonna happen
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 March 2016 19:54 (eight years ago) link
good range of comments on that article
― the late great, Thursday, 24 March 2016 20:07 (eight years ago) link
Galatians! lol
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 March 2016 20:13 (eight years ago) link
the key is to convert solar power to heated magma to be used later!
― Brian Eno's Mother (Latham Green), Friday, 25 March 2016 19:55 (eight years ago) link
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/12/the-solar-industry-has-paid-off-its-carbon-debts/510308/
― sleeve, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 20:45 (seven years ago) link
Well that's neat
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 23:50 (seven years ago) link
more trade war details for anyone who is interested
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/suniva-solarworld-file-new-trade-remedy-proposals#gs.96pEz6E
as I mentioned in the Global Warming thread, one of the big problems with all of this is that four years isn't a long enough window to actually build cell factories if the tariffs that make them cost-effective disappear after that point.
― sleeve, Monday, 2 October 2017 17:50 (six years ago) link
Circa 1980 I bought a Casio solar-powered calculator, just the kind that does basic arithmetic operations. It has only just now bit the dust, after providing me with 37 years of faithful service and not a single battery required, let alone daily recharging. It was perfection of its kind. Of course, with mobile phones now performing the same functions, I will never be able to replace it.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 2 October 2017 23:07 (six years ago) link
Ha! I have such a Casio, bought at about the same time, and it's still working fine.
― nickn, Monday, 2 October 2017 23:18 (six years ago) link
Mine was dropped once too often.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 2 October 2017 23:24 (six years ago) link
waiting for the penny to drop on Monday w/r/t tariffs or cell quotas
this speech does not bode well:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-will-no-longer-be-taken-advantage-of-on-trade-trumps-sharp-rebuke-to-china-20171110-gzj60v.html
― sleeve, Friday, 10 November 2017 17:04 (six years ago) link
idk that reads like his usual empty bluster
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 November 2017 17:06 (six years ago) link
and nothing specific about the solar tariff issue
I know, I'm just paranoid.
The ITC recommended like four different options, nobody has any idea what's going to happen and it's the uncertainty that's wearing on me
― sleeve, Friday, 10 November 2017 17:08 (six years ago) link
60 more days of misery, uncertainly, market disruption, and fear. This is the worst.
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/11/13/the-clock-ticks-itc-turns-section-201-over-to-president-trump/
pv magazine staff has found no sources that can tell us more about this confidential report, and ITC staff has stated that a public version will be released at an unspecified later date. {...}
In other words, President Trump can do just about anything. There are precious few limitations, but these include that initial trade action can last four years (and be extended to up to eight years), and that tariffs are limited to 50% of the price of products “above the rate existing before the proclamation of action”.
This last detail may be more complex than it first appears. While all the commissioners who recommended import duties would have the tariff values calculated on the cost when solar products enter the nation, SolarWorld and Suniva have asked for duties equal to 50% of the prices during timeframes covering previous years when solar cells and modules were much more expensive.
Neither SolarWorld nor Suniva has done much to mitigate these proposals, which we at pv magazine feel are dangerous and unreasonable.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
"uncertainty"
― sleeve, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
dumbfucks
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
both of those companies can burn in hell, forever
so selfish and stupid
― sleeve, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
yeah it's rather remarkable
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:02 (six years ago) link
Other solar groups have stepped up to support the cause using social and advertising campaigns. A coalition of manufacturers, U.S. Made Solar, has been running TV advertisements during shows that President Trump watches regularly, such as Fox & Friends.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solar-industry-makes-last-ditch-lobbying-against-solar-tariffs#gs.rMpfhZI
― sleeve, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 01:18 (six years ago) link
we'll know within two weeks, probably. good article.
30% tariff, could have been worse, hopefully Solar World and Suniva die now
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/breaking-trump-admin-issues-a-30-solar-tariff#gs.8mgzsVs
― sleeve, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 01:44 (six years ago) link
well looks like Solar World found a way out
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/sunpower-acquires-solarworld-americas#gs.E0HOHd0
― sleeve, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 17:07 (six years ago) link
Anyone here have experience getting solar at home? I've been intrigued for years, but the numbers seem completely unappetizing. When I put our address into the supposedly close to accurate free google solar calculator, for example (https://www.google.com/get/sunroof), it claims savings of $6000 over *20 years*. $300 a year for two decades seems a pretty paltry reward for putting five-figures into the system, even with (dwindling) tax write-offs and rebates. And yeah, floating somewhere in there is environmental impact, but on that front it seems much more efficient/easy to just find ways to use less power, or if you're feeling generous just donating that huge amount of upfront install cost to a food pantry or something, where every dollar given gets exponential returns.
I dunno. Am I looking at this all wrong?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 16:07 (four years ago) link
(caveats: i don't own a home, and i haven't payed close attention to this stuff for a while)
i think you're generally looking at it in a reasonable way. a couple thoughts:
- solar panels are getting less expensive and are a lot cheaper than they used to be, but they still typically have long payback periods (the amount of time it takes to recoup the upfront cost) for individual homeowners.- some utilities have amazing financing programs where they'll pay quite a bit of the upfront costs and gradually bill it to you on your utility statement every month. some don't.- in general, solar is much more economical at scale. at some point if we don't have the dumbest person of all time as our president, maybe we'll upgrade our grid and energy policies so that individual homeowners with solar can even feed excess energy INTO the grid and make a little money. but instead we live in this world.- you're spot on, i think, about looking for other ways to use less power and using that money for something else right now. you can get a free home energy audit (disclosure: i work in this field) from your utility that will identify energy saving measures, and in a lot of cases the utility will even install free equipment (smart thermostats, energy-saving aerators for faucets, etc). energy efficiency measures typically have a MUCH shorter payback period than solar panels on a roof.
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 16:26 (four years ago) link
oops, my link was broken. i meant to link to an image of concentrated solar power:
https://news.energysage.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11.14.18_solar.jpg
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link
curious to hear from people from other non-chicago places though! like i said, i haven't followed it closely in a while and it's possible that people in warm sunny progressive places are able to take advantage of residential solar in a more cost-efficient manner
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 16:29 (four years ago) link
final, contradictory, thought - if you're planning on staying in your house for 15 to 20 years (long enough to cover the payback period and start recouping costs) and have extra money, you should still consider it! just know that in 5 years there will be better, cheaper solar and your neighbors will be putting it on their roofs and recouping their costs in 8 years instead of 15 (or whatever). the price of solar is likely to keep dropping, so the longer you wait, the better the deal. i'm sure there are people who put solar on their roofs 10 years ago that are insanely jealous of the current tech and prices.
final final thought: i don't think IL has a state tax credit for residential solar right now. if it were me and i had a home and some money, i'd wait until we get a state tax credit, in addition to the federal incentives.
― But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!😂 (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 16:37 (four years ago) link
Yeah, thanks for all that. We have a relatively new home, so everything is running pretty efficiently. Our total power bill last year was $1100, which ... doesn't seem that high. Now, if solar could take *$600* off the bill annually ... that would still be kinda low for the investment, since it's not even a sure thing we'll even be in this house for another 15-20 years; incredibly, we're (likely) empty nesters in about six!
I have three friends that have gotten or are about to get solar, and the stories/numbers/savings they cite just don't jibe with my (casual) research. I, too, would love to hear stories from places that are not Chicagoland, though.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 16:43 (four years ago) link
detailed breakdowns for IL available here:
https://www.solarpowerrocks.com/illinois/
8-year payback period and 15.73% IRR on average
a lot of those saving are due to the 26% tax credit - do you have a tax burden? that's where the real savings are with this.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 19:37 (four years ago) link
Thanks. It looks like the tax credit expires after 2021, and President Asshole could just order it ended tomorrow, couldn't he? Either way, in theory I'd get a 26% tax rebate for 2020, then 21% in 2021, then nothing after that. But if that website is more or less accurate, and the avg. savings is more or less what I pay in power annually, then yeah, 8 (or maybe 10) year payback seems possible. We have a consult with someone tomorrow, I'm curious what they say.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 19:48 (four years ago) link
no the tax credit is 26% if you get it installed in 2020 - then, if the credit is more than your tax burden, you can spread the credit out over an up-to-five-year period. but it's a one-time credit, 26% of your total cost *including* installation.
the difference in payback times between states is based entirely on state or utility-based incentives, so if you have time dig in to the state incentives on that page.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 20:22 (four years ago) link
According to that site it looks like IL offers no rebates or tax incentives.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 20:29 (four years ago) link
ah yeah looks like the incentives ran out (that happens frequently)
this might help:
There is still hope for residents of Springfield and Chicago, which each have their own solar grant programs. Your installer (click here to see what you can save with solar power on your home) will give you all the details on those and any other grants and rebates you may qualify for.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 20:32 (four years ago) link
for what it's worth I'm a big fan of the SMA inverters that have an optional outlet you can install that provides 15-amp 120V power during the day if there is a power outage
― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 20:33 (four years ago) link
SMA is so bloody expensive though. Buy Chinese either Ginlong or Sungrow. I’ve visited both their factories and their quality systems are great. I commissioned a full quality audit on Ginlong a few years back and they rated really highly and I only ever had one quality issue in dealing with them over 1000s of installs. (a weird clipping issue at maximum output that got solved in subsequent models)
If you have a difficult roof or shading issues, get SolarEdge.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 22:18 (four years ago) link
I agree with Ed, Sungrow is good as well and SolarEdge is the best choice for shaded roofs - SMA won't work well with shade
I just *really* like the Secure Power Supply feature on SMA
― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 22:30 (four years ago) link
also, Ed I would love to hear the gory details about that clipping issue if you are so inclined
― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 22:31 (four years ago) link