Rideshare services - Uber, Lyft, Hailo, etc.

standard cabs with internet booking and surge algorhythms (hidden from customer) would be ideal.

afaik uber and lyft do both have public programming interfaces to some extent -- I've used an aggregated transportation app (in montreal, even) to see what's available, but it was more:
- this bus will be at this location near you, it'll take 15 minutes between walk/wait/ride
- uber would take approximately x minutes and be approximately x dollars
- zipcar (or whatever instant rental) is x blocks away

the problem is that there's no incentive for cooperation and if lyft or uber decided sharing even limited data was costing them traffic, they'd pull the plug on public data and fluff their availability stats even more. there's already uber's denial that there are "ghost cars" showing up on their map, but there's no reason they wouldn't resort to that practice. it's not a market that rewards transparency, and won't be unless passengers note a firm discrepancy and quit using a service. there's no indication right now that opening both apps and checking for price/distance is actually going to give you the right data.

The complaints with uber et al aren't strictly about wages or competition. They're about deregulation of what is currently regulated somewhat like a public good. Cabs provide a standard service that the public needs and they should be regulated as such. It's fine that companies compete, and it's fine that they innovate with e.g. an app for finding a cab, but I don't think some hand-wavey invisible hand should be an excuse to allow a company to violate laws that dictate who has what kind of insurance, who is an employee and who is a contractor, which maintenance jobs happen how often, what regions a cab serves and under which conditions, and (as in some states, including Florida iirc, with its historically conservative legislature) the maximum rate a driver can charge.

but haven't we kind of learned through uber & lyft existing and being pretty dece that those regulations maybe weren't so important after all? like what is an important thing that was regulated that will now be much worse for consumers?

they're really outdated and taxi companies have kind of benefited from being entrenched in the system to the detriment of consumers, and I would argue, their own detriment when it comes to delivering a product people want

as for what was regulated and important:
laws that dictate who has what kind of insurance, who is an employee and who is a contractor, which maintenance jobs happen how often, what regions a cab serves and under which conditions, and (as in some states, including Florida iirc, with its historically conservative legislature) the maximum rate a driver can charge

(thanks bam)

I'm guessing part of it is due dilligence on the part of drivers, but the mostly-ridiculous reddit legal questions board had a question from a dude who was in an accident while he didn't have an uber fare, but was theoretically looking for fares. uber said "no fare, no insurance" and his own company instantly bounced him once they found out he used his car for business purposes. I'm guessing there are a fair number of drivers trying to game the system in that way, though.

right, but the absence of which of those regulations make consumers worse off taking Uber/Lyft? maybe the insurance and the maintenance ones? BUT now that we've had 2 years of unregulated + cheaper rideshares we should update our prior as to whether the price of these regulations (or the pass through to price of licenses) were really worth it. we can quibble about details, answer seems to me obviously 'it was not worth it, we were paying too much.'

I think the base argument is that yeah, the system was broken, but it's still broken but there are at least some rides now

Who was paying too much for what? Is this an issue of drunk urbanites being unable to hail a taxi? Or fares that were marginally too expensive? Whether in the suburbs or the city, I've always been able to call a cab as a contingency plan when train, bus, feet, or bike couldn't do the job, and I've always paid a price I thought was fair.

Insurance isn't there for cab customers; it's for people in accidents. Obviously due to the nature of their occupation, insurers would want drivers to have a different class of insurance. This protects not only them, but also anyone they might get in an accident with. I also don't see a problem with stricter licensing for anyone but your average driver, that is, for trailer truck drivers, commercial drivers, taxi drivers, etc. Their jobs revolve around driving, so they should demonstrate to the states they operate in that they can competently perform their jobs, particularly because motor vehicles are a common cause of injury and death.

State regulations regarding employees and contractors potentially affect every worker in the state, so I don't see why any one company should be excepted from them, though whole categories of employment might be expressly excepted.

If taxis fail as something benefitting the public as well as lawmakers feel they should, then regulations can be revised, and at that time we can thank uber et al if they've pressured states to improve their regulations (so that more drivers can get on the road, I guess? I don't really give a shit about that. I actually have a lot of antipathy toward the idea), but the costs of deregulation aren't as clear cut as the average price of fares and the average wage of drivers, and unless the cost of ensuring safety and reasonable levels of liability are spiraling out of control due to regulations, you can't convince me that these basic regulatory safeguards are unreasonable.

And two years is too short a time to evaluate the outcome of this experiment. Did it take two years for virtually every trolley company in cities across America to be replaced by buses, taxis, private cars, urban sprawl, congestion, and smog? Did it take two years to deindustrialize the Midwest, leaving scars like East St Louis, Detroit, and Gary? The deregulation of the taxi industry isn't as dire as all that, but it's also nontrivial, and it has implications for policy-making in other sectors, eg housing, where airbnb is far more insidious than uber could ever hope to be.

Booming

aye

^^^ thanks, bamcquern.

imo these services came along at a very opportune time where, in a number of cities that lacked a good taxi service or public transportation, the attitude that driving is more of a burden than a freedom started to become part of the public consciousness.

off topic right now, but there's a (purported) startup competitor called "dryvyng" run by a guy who got popped by the feds for running a revenge porn website. he's one of the funniest and most deluded lunatics on social media. if you like that kind of thing. i don't think the company is running yet, or ever will.

Who was paying too much for what? Is this an issue of drunk urbanites being unable to hail a taxi? Or fares that were marginally too expensive? Whether in the suburbs or the city, I've always been able to call a cab as a contingency plan when train, bus, feet, or bike couldn't do the job, and I've always paid a price I thought was fair.

Imo one of the appeals of Uber is being able to get a local car quickly even in the very large parts of the city not served by taxis? Which maybe became a more appealing market when a wider range of areas gentrified with people who all want to get to Williamsburg or w/e. Both my home and all the places I go for work are basically not served at all by yellow cabs, so it's either Uber or an undependable livery cab service that has no accountability whatsoever, only takes cash, can't give you a receipt, can be v shady, etc. And sometimes even when I call those places they say flatly that they have no cars in the area, and hang up.

The last time I took Uber my driver was a dick though, and the easy access to my credit card allowed Uber to charge me a "cleaning" fee of 4x my fare, with no recourse for me if I objected. So I can't use them for work trips anymore.

the dryvyng guy is a social media treat

The last time I took Uber my driver was a dick though, and the easy access to my credit card allowed Uber to charge me a "cleaning" fee of 4x my fare, with no recourse for me if I objected. So I can't use them for work trips anymore.

Did you contact support? I've found them to be very responsive for issues like that. For every issue I've had, they've immediately refunded my money.

I objected and shared my concerns about the driver's behavior, but the $$ had already been deducted and they didn't offer to refund it. Maybe I should have protested harder? In any case.

Cleaning? Like a fee if you yack in their car?

Or if some cream cheese gets on the leather seat while you're transporting food for 100 people, apparently.

Cleaning? Like a fee if you yack in their car?

― Hammer Smashed Bagels,

Yep. Drivers like to share horror stories about picking up couples on the beach, watching them sway as they enter the back seat, and yak a few minutes later. If the driver send Uber the photos, they get $300 in cleaning expenses.

Last experience with Uber was pretty bad -- first guy went to the wrong place then cancelled when I refused to walk to him with my toddler in 15-degree weather. Second guy didn't bother to install the car seat (by the time we got out of my building and to the car and he's still just sitting there, not going to wait in 15-degree weather while he installs it for what is ultimately a short trip). Was charged anyway, no response when I complained to Uber about it.

I kind of doubt they can maintain a high volume of quality drivers and reasonable rates at the profit margins they seem to want. And their customer service is shit, and their rating system is useless (I don't want to give my driver 2 stars, I want to send a message to Uber that they should instruct their drivers to install the carseat when it is requested).

Well actually they just emailed me and refunded me for the carseat, so at least there's that.

They're responsive on Twitter as well. Just use the word uber and something negative about a trip then they'll contact you asking for more details.

At least in my experiences. Maybe I'm just good at tweet-plaining

https://twitter.com/THEKIDMERO/status/684521559952855041

lmao

I objected and shared my concerns about the driver's behavior, but the $$ had already been deducted and they didn't offer to refund it. Maybe I should have protested harder? In any case.

ime theyve always been super responsive to any complaints and will refund p much any ride ive had a complaint abt even when i didnt request one.

Yea sometimes their response time varies. I got charged for a trip I didn't take (cancelled almost immediately cos guy kept going the wrong way en route and was taking forever) and he charged me anyway and I sent a drunk email that said "WOT? I DID NOT I'LL BURY YOU COCKROACHES" and had a refund by morning

Then the next time I cancelled cos dude literally claimed he'd arrived three times and was nowhere to be found and I found a cab that was ready to go NOW and it was cold out.

They charged me cos I cancelled within .1 miles and I explained that I did so cos he kept getting lost and kept me waiting...nothing for about a week and then poof, refund after I'd forgotten about it.

I imagine getting cleaning fees back is harder.

and on the cleaning fee note!

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1983851-uber-drivers-under-focus-after-nyc-passenger-claims-driver-used-fake-vomit-to-charge-her-cleaning-fees/

This whole Uber Rush thing makes no sense to me -- why would I pay $5 extra for delivery when there are already plenty of places with free delivery? And why would anyone want to do the work if they're going to make so little?

this is pretty hilarious. looks like the whole independent contractor thing set them up for an anti-trust/price-fixing law-suit:

http://arstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ubercomplaint.pdf

Kalanick designed Uber to be a price fixer. Kalanick has long insisted that Uber is not a transportation company and that it does not employ drivers. Instead, Uber is a technology company, whose chief product is a smartphone app. The app matches riders with drivers. The app also provides a standard fare formula, the Uber pricing algorithm. Drivers using the Uber app do not compete on price. Rather, drivers charge the fares set by the Uber algorithm. Those fares surge at times to extraordinary levels, which are uniformly charged by drivers using the Uber app. Uber takes a cut of those price-fixed fares. Kalanick’s business plan thus generates profit through price fixing.

if the guy would've just said "yeah we employ drivers and use an algorithm to determine the pricing" this whole argument would fall apart

Yeah I've been following that -- it's sort of a crazy but brilliant lawsuit. While I think it will ultimately fail, I'm really enjoying seeing the stupid "we're not an employer" argument getting thrown back in their faces.

I mean I think the right answer is that they are an employer, not that they are an antitrust conspiracy. But since we haven't been able to pin them down yet as an employer, it's fun to watch them get snagged by their own disingenuousness.

Actually I think the right answer may be that a new category may need to be created for regulatory purposes, since there are certain ways they are a lot like an employer and certain ways they are not.

xp- exactly, it's an amazing troll but also a legit legal argument based on their stated position

Actually I think the right answer may be that a new category may need to be created for regulatory purposes, since there are certain ways they are a lot like an employer and certain ways they are not.

― human life won't become a cat (man alive), Tuesday, April 5, 2016 12:31 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21697861-third-category-worker-could-benefit-gig-economy-category-error?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/categoryerror

also

Uber drivers in New York form labor association

May 1 Uber drivers in New York state have formed an association to strengthen their hand in dealing with the ride-sharing service, labor leaders said on Sunday, days after the company agreed to a $100 million settlement with drivers in two other states.

More than 1,000 Uber drivers signed membership cards with the association, known as the Amalgamated Local of Livery Employees in Solidarity, or Alles, the association said in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/new-york-uber-idUSL2N17Y0H7

wow best name ever?

otm

iswtdt

lol that's great

we were in denver this last week and as an experiment in trying to conserve funds (and also bc rampant intoxication) i didn't rent a car and we ubered everywhere. i have to do final maths but i'm like 90% sure we saved a good amount of money not renting a car. they introduced this car pool feature which brought cost of transport down even further and since we weren't going on any long trips out of the city (longest 30 min to and from the airport) it was all v convenient. there was always a car within 5-7 minutes to pickup and all drivers were super friendly. on one hand i can't help but be aware of the lengthy critiques being drawn up of uber and the share economy in general and while i don't see my participation / use of the service as somehow validating every negative element i could not help but wonder about the ethical implications. otoh it's a better experience in every way than conventional taxi services so idk. is it impossible to deliver the better prices and the amazing services (w/ the app, the ratings, the carpooling) w/out taking better care of the employees?

I think I'm going to wait until at least one kid is out of a car seat before I try that.

FWIW I tried to uber pool from the San Diego airport to downtown when I was there for work and it did not work well - I waited 20 mins for the guy to find another rider and finally gave up.

none of our drivers waited longer than 2 minutes before giving up on a pickup

Friend who drove for Uber and Lyft in Austin has been throwing a fit about the vote they had on rideshares and now the city putting up laws for short-term rentals (Airbnb). I don't like local taxi companies and the way they've bought off local government on the cheap but Silicon Valley libertarians are just going to have to accept that there will be some regulation and that their hostility to workers (and in Airbnb's case, other property owners) isn't going to win over young liberals when push comes to shove on this stuff.

https://twitter.com/groditi/status/732417874627678210