Roman Polanski, or pardon me but your poll is in my neck.

I'll just assume Chinatown takes this with about 90 percent of the vote and focus on what lands place and show.

It's been so long since I've seen Chinatown...I'd have to watch it again before I could vote for it. I've only seen six on that list, and of those, I'd vote for Knife in the Water.

I remember really enjoying Frantic. Seems like Harrison Ford's best movies (Frantic, Working Girl, Mosquito Coast) are the ones that get swept under the rug of popular memory.

For me it's either Repulsion or The Tenant, I love the surreal/psychological tension of those movies.

that's the same two i came down to. voted for the tenant.

Frantic has one of the best premises ever for a thriller (Ford's wife walks out of their hotel room in France and just vanishes, and he isn't really able to convince the authorities that something has happened to her), but unfortunately it gets more formulaic towards the end.

Rosemary's Baby. I saw it in June again and, again, I thought it was the funniest, scariest horror film ever. Alarmingly well-cast too.

^ Rosemary's Baby is the shit.

Still, my vote goes to Chinatown.

I'm torn between the apartment trilogy. It might end up I compromise vote on Bitter Moon.

I saw that in the theatre; I was so relieved when most of the audience treated it as a comedy.

How could it not be a comedy?

Not too familiar with Polanski's work, but Rosemary's Baby is probably my second or third fav movie.

how many of you have seen Pirates?

That's one I've skipped up until now.

the scores of his movies are so great in and of themselves. i mean ...the opening notes to RB that i think were covered by Fantomas - wow. also chinatown's is of course so well-known now that we cant imagine a noir world without it

Tenant.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

too many of these I still haven't seen, I'm going to vote for Repulsion

I think I voted for Repulsion. Not seen anything pre-Knife and everything post-Tenant has uh problems.

i like the johnny depp one.

Ninth Gate (I should really scroll up to figure out what I'm talking about before posting). Death and Maiden was very good as well. Obviously neither of these are up to Repulsion/Rosemary's Baby standards; in fact, I'd say that very-obvious-Polanski-rip-off film "Birth" is better than those.

Some of the post-Tenant stuff is okay (neither of the two you mention I liked much though) but it seriously pales compared to the stuff which preceded it.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Kind of surprised Chinatown is so loved.

rosemary's baby is one of my favorites of all-time

Kind of surprised Chinatown is so loved.

― Alex in SF, Friday, October 17, 2008 1:02 AM (5 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

er what?

It's great, but I don't think its his best film by any stretch.

I voted for Knife in the Water, back in the day. Such a beautiful movie.

dvd advice: skip repulsion. the current dvd is pan & scan and looks like shit.

There isn't a Criterion version of Repulsion? That sucks.

Kind of surprised Chinatown is so loved.

It does diagnose what's most wrong with America; when it's set, when it was made, now.

Albacore Insurance Group

"It does diagnose what's most wrong with America; when it's set, when it was made, now."

I don't think it does that any better than oh let's say Who Framed Roger Rabbit though. Rosemary's Baby is just a better movie IMO. Repulsion too, but I can understand why people couldn't get into that as much.

I think RB is a solid #2, like everything that got votes cept Pirates and
Two Men and a Wardrobe (unseen). Preferred Tess to FVK but it's been awhile.

FVK is fluffy. It's kind of hard to imagine it being made by the same guy who did the Tenant.

well, his interest in changing up was a common trait that more current directors w/ talent should investigate. (Wes Anderson, how bout a spy thriller)

oh his Macbeth is one of the 5-6 best Shakespeare films, probably.

Never actually seen that. I should. Do you count Kurosawa as Shakespeare btw?

nah, not quite. Goes in the "variations" column with Forbidden Planet.

I want to hear your top 5-6 then.

I'm forgetful! Top of the head: Welles' Othello, Olivier's Richard III, Polanski, Almereyda's Hamlet, Chimes at Midnight, then maybe Dieterle's A Midsummer's Night Dream, the Soviet Hamlet from the '60s, and Branagh's Henry V.

Never seen Almereyda's Hamlet. Recall liking Branagh's quite a bit, plus it reminds you that the actual play is long long long (there is a Northrop Frye line about the play being so long cuz no one ever shuts the fuck in it.) Taymor's Titus is good for a very minor play. Can't argue with the first two at all though, Welles and Olivier are stone classics.

Richard III might be the funniest of the tragedies too.

ooh yeah Polanski's MacBeth is fantastic. vividly remember watching it in high school English

Welle's Othello also somewhere near the top, Morbz has a good list there

all the film versions of macbeth i've seen are good -- kurosawa's is my fav kurosawa, welles's is great and bizarre (like "caligari" filmed on a star trek set), and polanski's is just a brilliant realization of the play, probably the best polanski i've seen after repulsion and RB.

morb's list would be close to mine (though i haven't seen the soviet hamlet yet -- according to imdb it's called "gamlet"!!), with chimes easily taking top honors.

Welles' Macbeth >>>> Polanski's Macbeth >>>> Welles' Othello

Yeah -- Chimes at Midnight and the William Richert-Keanu Reeves bits in My Own Private Idaho are my favorite screen Shakespeares.

No Keanu Reeves bits are my favorite anything.

the William Richert-Keanu Reeves bits in My Own Private Idaho are my favorite screen Shakespeare.

you've said this before and I am nonetheless still alarmed at your toleration for this terribly misguided claptrap. I don't think Keanu even understands a single line he says in that movie.

haha x-post

Rep screening of Chinatown tonight. Kael wanted Robert Towne's original ending, where (I think) the bad guy gets punished. I don't think that would have been anywhere near as great or artistic or unforgettable as what's there--the last five minutes are perfect. The bad guy gets away; how else could it end in 1974? (True of the director too, I guess.)

Seriously. It's one of the all time great rug-pulls, the corrupt, corrupting, malignantly rich and powerful antagonist totally unconcerned with the MacGuffin of a plot we've been following, far more interested in pursuing his own totally depraved agenda, like a dogged collector who has everything except the one thing he can't have but will ultimately not be denied.

Seriously. It's one of the all time great rug-pulls, the corrupt, corrupting, malignantly rich and powerful antagonist totally unconcerned with the MacGuffin of a plot we've been following, far more interested in pursuing his own totally depraved agenda, like a dogged collector who has everything except the one thing he can't have but will ultimately not be denied.

I learned from Sam Wasson's book that Polanski probably deserved co-writing credit for the degree to which he rewrote dialogue, tightened the structure, and changed the ending (it's one of the few scripts on which he's not credited).

"leave it Jake, the criminal justice system will take it from here"

Which is basically what Nicholson screams out to Dunaway: "Evelyn, put that gun away, let the police handle this." (2026 version of her reply: "He owns the Supreme Court.")

And I know I overdo stuff like this, but Nicholson at the end--near-catatonic, barely able to whisper his final line--is just the perfect summation of where the country was at after the past decade, starting with the JFK assassination. (Checked, and Chinatown was released June 20, '74, before Nixon walked away.) Where is the film that will do the same for the past decade, starting in 2016? Did it come and go and I missed it?

The dopamine-euphoria, fear, and exhaustion on Benicio Del Toro's face in his One Battle After Another scenes.

(You don't have to like an artifact to acknowledge how it reflects its times)

If you're talking about that movie, I'd say it's Benicio's bemused, laid-back demeanor. He knows it's all one big joke. There's one battle after another, as in a war, and then there's one battle after another, a here-we-go-again "same as it ever was" farce, and that movie's biggest strength is toeing that line.

That said, no, it's no "Chinatown," lol.

For me...a chasm between those two. Maybe Wes Anderson's the guy to make that film.

Does it matter if it's as good as Chinatown? xpost

Where is the film that will do the same for the past decade, starting in 2016? Did it come and go and I missed it?

― clemenza, 28 May 2026 12:24 (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yerman with the acorn in the ice age series

In their own ways Zola, Wake Up Dead Man, and, most conspicuously, The Secret Agent qualify.

I'd agree with that! Something like "The Florida Project" feels very of the moment, too.

Does it matter if it's as good as Chinatown?

Nope! Only in the sense that "Chinatown" is so good it still works in/for 2026 even better than "One Battle" does.

Sorry To Bother You or Children of Men are the first that spring to mind but there must be lots

Thinking outside of the US and there's shitloads. Most of Jia Zhangke's films for a start

Jia is a good pick, especially the last two.

I know *I* overdo stuff like this, but I take issue with clemenza's assertion that there was a universal shared feeling (among Americans?) generated by a decade of history that was captured by one actor in one scene in one movie

Not saying it's universal in that everyone will agree, but in a general sense, how that tumultuous decade is viewed, I think it captures something. I mean, critics make assertions about art all the time; when they do so, do they expect that every last person will agree? I also think it matters very much whether the Paul Anderson film is as good as Chinatown (in wondering when today's equivalent would come along, the implication was that it would be a film every bit as good as Chinatown). It's like saying "Does it matter if 'We Didn't Start the Fire' is as good as 'Desolation Row'? They both aim high."

I think the final scene summed up the same (almost/barely) post Watergate/Vietnam (yeah, American) vibes that many other scenes and films of that era reflected, ruthlessly; there's a reason why "Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown" is one of the most famous final lines in a film, it's a good catch-all summation. (Assuming we don't have one, best final lines might make a good poll ...)

in a general sense, how that tumultuous decade is viewed, I think it captures something

yeah but these things take time to solidify, no? I mean I wasn't there, but I doubt that in 1974 this claim would have been so readily agreed to. And I must insist that it really does matter who you ask and not assume / think seriously about what we mean by a "general sense." To make a borderline unfair riposte, what would a Chinese American person have thought about this scene/expression/film in 1974?

That said, I do get the point here is more "what film captures the current zeitgeist?" but imo you're not going to find a satisfactory answer because the narrative hasn't coalesced yet. Speaking of PTA though, I think There Will Be Blood, and especially the ending, might be a strong example of what you're looking for for an earlier era?

post Watergate/Vietnam (yeah, American) vibes

These posts are helpful btw; I'm not myself 100% sure what I'm pushing back against or why my instinct is to resist this. But I think I'm somewhat suspicious of the idea that the national mood was so strongly felt that it can be captured so easily. That feels like a story we tell about the past (not that there's anything wrong with that tbc), partially under the influence of these films. So there's a tautological aspect to it for me — to some extent, we think there was a sense of national exhaustion because we watched Chinatown et al.

Man, I don't think you can oversell the cultural impact of Vietnam and Watergate, and all the upheaval of riots and assassinations etc. that preceded or coincided with them, especially in 1975, when the wounds were literally as fresh as they could be.

Also, There Will Be Blood is pretty heavily indebted to Chinatown.

"We Didn't Start the Fire" is a terrible song that absolutely embodies a certain boomer self-regard.

It's probably my fault for introducing other ideas, but I don't get what your post has to do with clemenza's claim about Nicholson in the final scene? Like obviously Vietnam and Watergate had cultural impact but did everyone, so to speak, feel the same about it? Is that impact, plus the riots and assassinations, summed up by Jake?

I'm wondering about the historiographical assumptions behind clemenza's idea (which I'm enjoying discussing tbc!). I'm looking at wikipedia's list of 1974 films and yes, you've got The Conversation and The Parallax View there too. But you've also got Blazing Saddles and Young Frankenstein; Foxy Brown, Truck Turner, and Uptown Saturday Night; Death Wish and Mr Majestyk; etc etc. IOW, I feel like there are multiple versions of 1974 available for summation here.

Also, There Will Be Blood is pretty heavily indebted to Chinatown.

For sure, def part of why it came to mind. Maybe for me that's a better question: what current films echo/ resonate with Chinatown, specifically, in their attempts to capture the zeigeist?

it won the un certain self regard at Cannes

anyway, in 1974 a lot of people thought that Nixon was innocent and Vietnam was great

lol I should have just said that (it was the subtext of "Death Wish and Mr Majestyk" though)

M*A*S*H (the film) is a solid example of "contemporary audience gets the subtext" i would say

It's been too long since I saw that one, but California Split is on the '74 list and I think it would be a v interesting addition to the conversation.

I'm out right now, rob, but later today I'll try to look at some contemporaneous reviews, see if anybody thought of the film as a larger commentary, or whether they just thought it was an expert film noir.

ah yeah that could be interesting for sure. I should say that Chinatown arriving alongside The Conversation and Parallax View means what you said is by no means absurd or untenable — you guys are otm about the convoluted conspiracy + brute force "rug pull" that started off the conversation — I just wanted to poke at the theory a little, likely due to being academia-poisoned.

I agree with your instincts to question the premise, Rob.

But as far as a contemporary movie that summarizes "where the country is at," I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Eddington. Or perhaps it's too on-the-nose (which I think is part of my problem with it).

ah, was hoping the thread bump meant he was dead.

Films that comment On Our Times become go-tos organically, like Songs of the Summer and anthems.

"Eddington" is a great example of maybe not so much capturing the zeitgeist as literally depicting it, which I agree is not to its benefit. No matter what one ultimately thinks about "One Battle," it would have been much worse if it was specific to the here and now.

The vibe of the ('70s) Vietnam/Watergate/corruption era courses through lots of other critical/commercial American hits, of course, from the two "Godfather" films, "Cuckoo's Nest," "Taxi Driver," "Dog Day," obv. "All the President's Men" and "Apocalypse Now" (plus so many other Vietnam movies), some less prominent stuff such as "Night Moves, and so on.

Skimmed some online stuff--original reviews from Ebert, Sarris, and Vincent Canby--but Penelope Gilliat and Pauline Kael disappear behind a paywall. Ebert and Canby don't go near the reading I started with; Sarris kind of alludes to it ("only John Huston could possibly embody the corrupion of America since the '30s," and "there are thematic elements floating about in the atmosphere," followed by mention of a few other films like The Parallax Review), but isn't specific. Will check Kauffmann and Simon when I get home, also Sam Wasson's The Big Goodbye, which no doubt rounds up some reaction at the time.

It doesn't surprise me, though; easier to see that stuff with some distance, I think, rather than when you're right in the middle of it. The focus of those reviews is the film's relationship to classic film noir, with a little bit of Polanski's own biography. The points I started with, though, were exactly what it felt like when I watched the film last night--an overwhelming feeling of "Wow, does that ever nail the moment." That's bascially how I've always looked at films and music and any art: what does it feel like to watch/hear this, what does it connect to outside itself? I can't possibly arrive at anything that will apply to everyone. But I don't see that as important. I do know that the way I experience this particular film/ending isn't unusual, though--I've encountered it lots of places over the years.

Agree that readings out of academia can be deadening (40 years since I was in university, but I remember), often because they were taking a work and making it fit a rigid theory. I don't think I do that, though I do have (and am aware of, if you go back to my original post) tendencies. I think I basically look at art like all the critics who influenced...I mean inspired me.

Kael's original review (I think she also wrote a later capsule review) is interesting, inasmuch as it's part of a very long essay titled "On the Future of Movies."

A couple of relevant excerpts:

There is no way to estimate the full effect of Vietnam and Watergate on popular culture, but earlier films were predicated on an implied system of values which is gone now, except in the corrupt, vigilante form of a “Dirty Harry” or a “Walking Tall.” Almost all the current hits are jokes on the past, and especially on old films—a mixture of nostalgia and parody, laid on with a trowel. The pictures reach back in time, spoofing the past, jabbing at it. Nobody understands what contemporary heroes or heroines should be, or how they should relate to each other, and it’s safer not to risk the box-office embarrassment of seriousness.

...

The counterculture films made corruption seem inevitable and hence something you learn to live with; the next step was seeing it as slapstick comedy and learning to enjoy it. For the fatalistic, case-hardened audience, absurdism has become the only acceptable point of view—a new complacency. In “The Three Musketeers,” Richard Lester keeps his actors at a distance and scales the characters down to subnormal size; they’re letching, carousing buffoons who don’t care about anything but blood sport. The film isn’t politically or socially abrasive; it’s just “for fun.” At showings of “Chinatown,” the audience squeals with pleasure when Faye Dunaway reveals her incest. The success of “Chinatown”—with its beautifully structured script and draggy, overdeliberate direction—represents something dialectically new: nostalgia (for the thirties) openly turned to rot, and the celebration of rot. Robert Towne’s script had ended with the detective (Jack Nicholson) realizing what horrors the Dunaway character had been through, and, after she killed her incestuous father, helping her daughter get to Mexico. But Roman Polanski seals the picture with his gargoyle grin; now evil runs rampant. The picture is compelling, but coldly, suffocatingly compelling. Polanski keeps so much of it in closeup that there’s no air, no freedom to breathe; you don’t care who is hurt, since everything is blighted. Life is a blood-red maze. Polanski may leave the story muddy and opaque, but he shoves the rot at you, and large numbers of people seem to find it juicy. Audiences now appear to accept as a view of themselves what in the movies of the past six or seven years counterculture audiences jeered at Americans for being—cynical materialists who cared for nothing but their own greed and lust. The nihilistic, coarse-grained movies are telling us that nothing matters to us, that we’re all a bad joke.

Full essay is here, but (as clemenza noted) paywalled:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1974/08/05/on-the-future-of-movies

Interesting turn of events that the vigilante/rogue cop template she cites plus Watergate and Vietnam all soon coalesced into the "Rambo" series, more or less about a Vietnam vet cynically betrayed by an untrustworthy government that turns extra-legal vigilante.

Thanks for copying that. As I was driving home thinking about it, I did remember that that was her complaint--that the film went too far in saying everything is corrupt and rotten: "The nihilistic, coarse-grained movies are telling us that nothing matters to us, that we’re all a bad joke." I think there were other films where she had variations on the same idea--that it was too easy to just throw your hands in the air and say everything was hopeless.

Almost seems quaint now

draggy, overdeliberate direction

yeah no this is so wrong

is a close-up of the fish that Noah Cross serves Jake overdeliberat

e

n

Looked up Simon and Kauffmann's reviews between covers. Simon speaks very generally about the corruption/rot angle--the review is very laudatory, though. Kauffmann's review is making me laugh in view of what we've been talking about:

Towne has patently set up what he considers a moral symbology under the surface of his thriller--the "Chinatown" in each man's life or the "Chinatown" of America's soul, etc. I forsee such film journal items as "Between Two Underworld: Moral Ambiguity in Polanski's Chinatown," and "The Scent of Violence: Nicholson's Nose as the New Moby Dick." (In a time when Howard Hawks is compared to Samuel Beckett, which happened recently, burlesque is impossible.) Pundits of popular culture can find Deeper Meaning in absolutely anything; Towne has made it too easy for them.

I love Kauffmann...good old-fashioned snobbery I don't mind at all. Mea culpa, mea culpa. I think he did well to die before x, y, and z.

("Underworlds"--my error, not his.)

I know *I* overdo stuff like this, but I take issue with clemenza's assertion that there was a universal shared feeling (among Americans?) generated by a decade of history that was captured by one actor in one scene in one movie

maybe not back then but i think we can all agree that this neil breen scene works for the current moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V79qKOdCYZw