Post a controversial opinion

Technological human civilization squandered its last opportunity to avert suicide in my lifetime.

Climate feedback runaway, population overshoot, resource scarcity, pervasive warfare over the scraps, and an unmistakable sixth mass extinction are inevitable over the next couple centuries; barring a near-term massive pandemic.

Without accessible fossil fuels, subsequent human civilizations will remain stuck at Roman-to-17th century technical development.

This was our species test prior to expansion into our star system and the galaxy beyond, and we failed.

Perhaps this accounts for the Fermi Paradox as well.

I think that particular controversial opinion is well established

I'll continue to save a few quid in the expectation of a nice retirement myself tbh

I think everything's going to be OK

...for wealthier people and people who don't live in developing countries, yep

I agree with half of Dr. Pangloss' famous dictum, namely that this is the best of all possible worlds. The idea that everything is for the best, however, is pure nonsense.

People who are otherwise not religious or especially not Christian putting up Christmas trees are weird.

It was pagan syncretism to begin with though

Sure. But it's not now. Especially irks me when people call them secular, seasonal decorations. Yeah, if you celebrate Christmas.

it has always been semi-pagan and unexamined and the tree isn't a christian symbol anyway

an unexamined tree is not worth trimming

If you agree that the meaning of Christmas can change from pagan to Christian, why do you disagree that it can change from Christian to secular?

You talking to me? Because it's called a Christmas tree, is overwhelmingly celebrated by Christians and is usually accompanied by Santa, elves, presents and, um, Christmas?

remember that point in history when christmas was unambiguously a christian festival and everybody treated it as such and there was no tension or disagreement between christians about what it meant or how it could be celebrated and every tradition people observed was derived from theology?

like santa, elves and presents

This opinion, so controversial. Maybe I should have put it in the irrationally angry thread, because my opinion is no more rational than Christmas trees.

I dunno. It just makes me feel weird every year, how overwhelmingly Christmas everything is, and how not Christian I am, and how often I come across people claiming oh it's just a secular seasonal decoration. Meanwhile, even my kids get really self-conscious about their otherness this time of year.

mayonnaise is the third best wet condiment behind hot sauce and mustard

xp i can see lots of ways christmas is still used as a stick to beat non-christians with maybe but i want to defend the immemorial secular northern ceremonies of "please bring the sunshine back it's dark and cold and there's nothing to do except drink the endless night away" that christianity has never been able to snuff out

Yeah, having a winter festival just makes sense to me, it doesn't have to be Christmas per se (I celebrate a fictional festival I call Nuclear Winterval where I make people watch Threads every year). I guess making it be Christmas is still kind of Eurocentric at the least, but presents + trees + elves + stockings + food + booze aren't particularly Christian notions, not to mention Krampus and the Gävlebocken.

presents + trees + elves + stockings + food + booze

these comprise all the best things in the world. plus music.

could do without the stockings (controversial opinion). my mom probably likes them more than presents proper. was in the supermarket with her yesterday and she picked up a $5 lightsaber toothbrush--you press a button and it lights up and goes worp-worp for as long as you're supposed to brush your teeth for--and said "do you think dad would like this in his stocking?" and i was like "...no" and she was like "would you?"

(i said yes of course so i have that to look forward to, but aside from this and the perennial chocolate orange the stocking is a clutterbomb.)

I had no problem eating my coworker's diwali cookies, they can have my holiday ones

i want to defend the immemorial secular northern ceremonies of "please bring the sunshine back it's dark and cold and there's nothing to do except drink the endless night away" that christianity has never been able to snuff out

THIS

(said from the 44th parallel)

Thread prompted me to look up other winter festivals, obviously there's Hanukkah and Kwanzaa, among others there's also Sadeh and Pancha Ganapati, both of which are quite cool in different ways (former: FIRE YES, latter: I'm particularly down with the celebration of the arts).

I'm kind of cautious in that being all "every festival is cool, let's celebrate them all" somehow smacks of privilege, but... that pretty much is my attitude to this stuff.

I think the stockings are Christian. Something to do with St Nicholas giving gold to poor women by putting the stockings through the window.

Jesus wasn't enough for a holiday so we combined his bday with some dude who liked to gift

Nuclear Winterval FTW

People who are otherwise not religious or especially not Christian putting up Christmas trees are weird.

My family does this, I participate and (usually) enjoy it, and I agree with you.

what's weird, not to mention kind of an unconscionable waste of carbon, is putting them up in the tropics. love them tho.

trees in your house is always a good idea imo

i mean within reason

that christianity has a hegemonic grip on america is def not a controversial opinion

There are other countries in the world than America, believe it or not.

^ controversial opinion

nah

Ppl worried abt what other ppl do or don't do vis-a-vis Christmas prob could use another hobby

I've been an atheist since I was 12 but I have a Christmas tree every year and occasionally go to midnight Catholic mass on Christmas eve, I still feel culturally connected to catholicism tho, which might seem weird to some but whatevs.

It's the least weird thing in the world imo, I'm exactly the same tho so

more agnostic than athiest but p much the same

christmas is too much fun to be christian, most of the best elements are unrelated

my wife got a "rented" tree this year that will be replanted after the 25th, people come pick it up. pretty cool idea. I only celebrated the Solstice for many years, but my wife is from a Catholic family so I kinda stand by bemusedly while cookies and packages fly everywhere.

I dunno. It just makes me feel weird every year, how overwhelmingly Christmas everything is, and how not Christian I am, and how often I come across people claiming oh it's just a secular seasonal decoration. Meanwhile, even my kids get really self-conscious about their otherness this time of year.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, December 13, 2015 2:45 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did you grow up with a tree? My family is not religious but we always celebrate christmas, idk

oh nvm, awkward

are there any christmas movies with jesus in them?

Thread prompted me to look up other winter festivals, obviously there's Hanukkah and Kwanzaa,

Kwanzaa was devised explicitly as an alternative to Christmas, but Hanukkah isn't a winter festival, per se. It just typically occurs around Christmas. Often well before. Last year - year before? - it started on (American) Thanksgiving.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Christmas lights and stuff. They're pretty and brighten things up. But sure, yeah, in the States I still think of them as Christmas lights, sorry, and when someone has a tree in their house the last thing I imagine is they're just brightening up their winters. I have family in both England and Australia, where Christmas-y stuff apparently prevails yet where they insist it's totally secular and that "everyone does it." Which may be true, to an extent, but it makes me uneasy when the "secular" celebrations that "everyone" does just happens to coincide with longstanding traditions explicitly associated with a specific religion (however rooted in Paganism or non-Christianity many of the traditions may be). Just because I can sing a dozen Christmas songs does not make them secular, it means that I'm the product of decades of more or less innocent indoctrination.

I don't know, man. I guess I'd be more cool with it if it wasn't called Christmas.

are there any christmas movies with jesus in them?

Good question! I'm not sure, to be honest, but scenes set in churches and nativity decorations abound, so I guess he's sort of implicit?

As my wife just pointed out, Christmas celebrates birthday, so there aren't a lot of narrative roles for newborn Jesus to play.

Jesus's birthday, sorry. (Just in case anyone was confused.)

yeah, it was honestly just an aside that hadn't occurred to me until now. i respect your opinion

thought there might be a film where jesus showed up in 1930s london or something and teaches everyone the true meaning of blah blah blah