Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

fwiw (not much) here is Paul Ryan on why people on the terrorism watch list should still be able to purchase weapons: “government officials put people on such lists without any due legal process and so denying those listed the right to bear arms would violate their rights.”

there's actually some truth in that, but ryan and his cronies don't apply that truth to a million other things that don't have to do with guns. like, say, armed drones.

It bothers me, to be clear, because it feels gross to divert attention from the murder of the victims to handwringing about what might happen to you. Some of these FB people linked to specific stories about violence against Muslims post-Paris (a cabbie was killed, I gather?) but I didn't really investigate those alleged incidents. Some people linked to a tabloidy looking news headline about MUSLIM KILLERS (ny post, maybe?)

One of them (she wears hijab) just posted thanks to suburban white ladies for smiling really big at her as she went about her business today. I feel complex things about this phenomenon.

In a perverse way I actually see big problems with the idea of not allowing gun purchases
by people on a vague "watch list." I mean I support repealing the second amendment or severely curtailing it, but as long as our high court says it's a right I'm not psyched about denying rights based on semi-arbitrary, overbroad suspicion lists.

But ... guns being a right. Just think about how fucking absurd that seems. "I have the right to own an item who's express purpose is to kill other things".

the country was founded on killing other things daily

and a fifth of the populace is still living there

xxpost ok sure, but as long as the Supreme Court interprets the 2nd Amendment as it currently does there seems little legal rationale for denying that right to a minority report list of mostly-Muslims the FBI generated

also there do seem to be non-legal ways to get guns.

like if there is a plot brewing im not sure registering for firearm licenses is a consideration.

A panoply of voices, with a minimum of delusional claptrap: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/03/us/mass-shootings-fear-voices.html

TBH this guy probably has the right attitude:

Kieran, 33, from Quincy, Mass., said he was more worried about car accidents and hard living than he was about gun violence. He said it was “irrational” to worry too much about mass shootings and terrorist attacks.
He said he had never been the victim of any kind of assault in his life.
“I am aware of the possibility but recognize it as remote enough that any thoughts or preparation for such an attack would be irrational and distract me from real threats to my immediate existence, like traffic accidents (which I HAVE experienced) or my own risky behaviors like drinking too much (quit three years ago), smoking (quit eight years ago), or eating unhealthy (been vegetarian for four months now),” he wrote.
“I try to keep my fears and anxieties in check and make sure I focus on actively improving my life instead of worrying about unseen threats that I can’t control,” he continued. “I see this approach to life as me doing my part to defeat terror – which is an emotion, not an organization.”

YES A+ finally someone w brains

That's a nice illustration of how rational people can quickly turn into narcissistic navel-gazers. I wonder how often that dude worries about anybody besides himself.

ain't nobody done assaulted me before. I'm too likable. You know I can't help but pontificate how blessed I am, to have the gifts I have. I chalk it up to my healthy way of living - I'd be happy to share my gifts with you all, if you'll bend an ear.

My ethos is to only control things I can directly influence as an individual! Political action is a waste of precious energy!

yes if only they had the courage and selflessness to post on a thread called "Another fucking spree shooting. Great."

Bernie madoff

I just read that paragraph and insert bro at the end of every sentence.

i do think that of all the many things to worry about, being shot in a mass shooting is probably not the most rational thing to be spending every moment in fear of. that doesn't mean we shouldn't wish for saner gun laws.

...bro.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opinion/how-many-mass-shootings-are-there-really.html?_r=0

Adam Bruneauif you want to have an inane and pointless discussions car accidents I suggest you start a thread about car accidents. Otherwise kindly shut the fuck up you blowhard.

lol that actually more belonged in the other thread, oh well

no harm done. cheers, mate.

let's see how far you get wishing the second amendment gets repealed. good luck.

so only politicians with the ability to draft and bring legislation to the House floor should be permitted in this thread?

I actually made a pretty strong argument in the other thread for not focusing on repealing the second amendment.

Well maybe a better way to think about it is cost/benefit. The political process for amending the constitution is SO difficult in today's political climate to begin with, and until a pretty recent Supreme Court case, the Second Amendment wasn't the main barrier to effective gun control anyway. So I think it's REALLY not worth the kind of expenditure and effort it would take to try to repeal the second amendment, in part because even if we win it doesn't actually mean we get effective gun control!

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, October 2, 2015 8:53 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Heller v. DC was only 7 years ago. Our gun problem is much older.

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, October 2, 2015 8:55 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And meanwhile, yes, I literally think it's a better strategy to "sit around waiting" for a majority liberal court, which could easily be within 5-10 years, then to go through the circus of trying to amend the constitution. And if that court does materialize, you don't actually have to then "wait around" for the right case to come along. All that has to happen is a state or municipality passes a law that appears to violate Heller, and some chump takes the bait and challenges it in court.

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, October 2, 2015 8:57 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thing is, i agree with you.

i wonder if focusing on how disgraceful and embarrassing our gun deaths are will do anything to move right wingers, who tend to be nationalists. like, as nationalists, aren't they ashamed we have a massacre per day?

i know jingoism is irrational but i don't understand how someone can look at these numbers clearly and compare them to other countries and decide that the US has the right idea on gun laws.

Dear America: Here’s Your Gun Solution
Here’s some common sense for you. I want gun ownership to be as boring and annoying as car ownership. I want you to go to some Department of Weapons and sit for hours. I want folks who own guns to prove their skill, their mental and physical health, and to be licensed and reviewed over the years just as happens with our driver’s licenses. You earn the right to own and drive a vehicle; earn the right to own and use a gun.
Quibble with me over semantics if you want to; what is a “right” vs. what is a “privilege.” I’ll be busy with my friends and colleagues trying to prevent more unnecessary deaths.
Gun ownership isn’t some inalienable right granted by God. Remember, the Constitution was written by men coming out of a long and bloody war near the end of the 18th century. It was written for their time.
It also included the “right” to own a human being.
Things change.
Folks evolve.
I want a voluntary federal buyback program for firearms, with hunting weapons and vintage/historic weapons exempt. I want the sale of weapons to be even more tightly controlled than the sale of Xanax and other controlled substances. I want advertising for firearms to be as regulated as DTC (direct to consumer) advertising for pharmaceuticals (“May cause shortness of breath, long-lasting boners, etc.”) We can do all of this. It’ll create jobs, believe it or not: regulators, educators, enforcers.
It will not end murder. It won’t end rape or robbery either. It WILL make it harder to commit those crimes. There will be a black market for guns as there is for any coveted item in a capitalist society. (And I’m not anti-capitalism, btw. I’m a big fan! Sorry, hippies. I do love you guys, by the way, you’re very nice people with good instincts.)
Continuing education credits for gun owners should be required, just as they are with medical professionals. When you have a greater ability to take a human life you have a greater responsibility to prove your fitness to wield the tools that may create that end.
And that’s how the fuck you well-regulate a goddamn American militia.

https://human.parts/dear-america-here-s-your-gun-solution-3f22db6e0fbf#.ewxnmz48j

xp to treeship- everyone knows the problem isn't guns it's secular humanism

also islamism and the ferguson effect

yo mordy

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/12/03/does-motive-matter-in-mass-shootings-like-the-one-in-san-bernadino

as nationalists, aren't they ashamed we have a massacre per day?

Honestly feel that a decent number of these types feel that people who get killed in mass shootings are the weak ones and if thy were there they'd have been the hero who took out the shooter.

^^^ yes, a la Ben Carson's delusional heroism. Also, blaming gun-free zones.

Hamilton Nolan being Hamilton Nolan.

maybe we could get guns classified as a trans fat

telling the loons that the Constitution was written for another people and time will work about as well as letting them know the Bible is not the divinely inspired Word, but a set of tribal myths.

As the San Bernardino attack was happening, investigators believe the female shooter, Tashfeen Malik, posted on Facebook, pledging allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN.

The posting was by Malik made on an account with a different name, according to one U.S. official. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.

What's the point of all the secrecy (using different names, destroying hard drives, etc.)? I don't get any of that at all. Unless they honestly thought they were going to somehow survive and escape.

that's what i think - that they thought they'd get away. i think i read today or yesterday that authorities thought they were on their way to a second attack site when the shootout happened?

destroying CIA evidence

glad they found the incontrovertible evidence of a Facebook post, no way that could possibly be faked

"that's what i think - that they thought they'd get away."

Wouldn't shooting a bunch of people who know you kind of preclude getting away though...

weren't they wearing masks?

I mean, the whole thing is baffling and incomprehensible but it only becomes more so if they actually thought they were going to go on a murder spree and then just, like, chill afterwards.

Sure that might disguise them a little, but I'd still think "guy worked there, left party earlier, etc" would be pretty high on a POI list...