Respect to any whose offspring are now well into their 20s or older.
― nashwan, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 14:22 (eight years ago) link
Rupert Murdoch Verified account@rupertmurdoch
Billionaire tyrant and father of six (that I know of ;p) Joined December 2011
― nashwan, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 14:25 (eight years ago) link
whole lotta ad homs on twitter
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 14:51 (eight years ago) link
love RT ad homs, to endorse them
― gwyneth anger (patron sailor), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 15:14 (eight years ago) link
ime people who whine about ad hominem arguments are annoying nerds who assume twitter is their own personal debate club
― gwyneth anger (patron sailor), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 15:18 (eight years ago) link
like to expand that to ppl who complain abt all sorts of fallacies and say i wld beat them up
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 15:24 (eight years ago) link
its funny too cause twitter is terrible for srs reasoned debate cause theres not enough words and ppl just end up totally misunderstanding each other
i searched twitter once for ppl using the phrase 'logical fallacy' and gamergate hashtags and printed them all out and made a collage of them
im really fascinated by the currency that 'logic' has amongst fringe right-wing ideologues on-line, the need for governing authority or w/e
― LEGIT (Lamp), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 15:26 (eight years ago) link
Love twitter. Can not understand people who get into beefs and arguments on the thing. It's like yelling at someone in a passing car.
― pplains, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 15:27 (eight years ago) link
i've posted plenty about the weird 'logic/emotion' binary these ppl are obsessed with, it's usually to complain that others make decisions or have stances based on 'emotion' (often women)
really it's ironic because the ppl who say this are big whiny babies
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 15:39 (eight years ago) link
well, when someone is going on about how logical and rational they are being...reach for your gun, as the saying goes.
― ryan, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 16:01 (eight years ago) link
i guess that's maybe a different species from libertarians who are all "i'm just going to analyze this from first principles, why hasn't anyone ever done that before" - just as ugh
― 0 / 0 (lukas), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 16:22 (eight years ago) link
the appeal to logic, the primacy of 'critical thinking', the desire for 'objectivity' are all interesting parts of neo-reactionary discourse on-line. the emotions are for girls/the weak thing is part of it, the gameifiction approach to life, general silicon valley life as optimization puzzle stuff leads to the desire for a concrete, solvable method of arguing? also just the general fear of ambiguity, uncertainty, complexity (particularly verbal complexity).
― LEGIT (Lamp), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 16:37 (eight years ago) link
i see this, but like, lots of really moronic viewpoints are illogical, eg patriotism, religious zealotry or whatever, logic is important.
― japanese mage (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:02 (eight years ago) link
like p much all arguments ever involve someone saying "that doesn't make any sense..."
― japanese mage (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:03 (eight years ago) link
critical thinking skills are important, "logic" less so
their versions of 'logic' and 'emotion' or w/e have nothing to do with the actual concepts
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:06 (eight years ago) link
Yeah but some issues require knowing actual facts about the world to reason well. MRAs etc lecturing about logical fallacies tend to avoid learning about the experiences of other people.
xpost
― 0 / 0 (lukas), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
i am a logical, objective man and will scream at you how you are wrong
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
an interesting point, but what say you to my unsolicited rebuttal?
― gwyneth anger (patron sailor), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:12 (eight years ago) link
obv don't agree with using a binary of logic and emotion, or with the mra type you're discussing.
but "critical thinking" is just another way of saying "logic" - there's nothing wrong with "logic" as a concept just because some idiots have used it to abuse people or patronise them. i'm sure you can find someone doing this with "critical thinking", that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that as a concept.
xposts
― japanese mage (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:13 (eight years ago) link
i am very pro-logic but as i like to say the problem with people who claim "logic" and "reason" are on their side is that they never love those things as much as they claim. they don't really care enough about logic to really follow it through.
― ryan, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:16 (eight years ago) link
and p much everyone lets their wants or desires or whatever cloud logic prob 30 times a week, no one is immune. but it's prob still something to strive for. like dismissing that "you are being illogical and emotional" person would prob require logic too...
― japanese mage (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:17 (eight years ago) link
speaking of being pro-logic, i just read this yesterday and thought it was really interesting (had no idea about the mental imagery controversy and considered polling ilx on the topic):http://lesswrong.com/lw/dr/generalizing_from_one_example/
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:18 (eight years ago) link
no one wants u to know about the fallacy fallacy tho
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:19 (eight years ago) link
my posts dont really have anything to do with logical or critical thinking as actual things in the world, just more curious abt how they became totems for diverse neo-reactionary groups across the internet. like gamergate types for example will consistently accuse ppl with different viewpoints of lacking critical thinking, in ways that dont particularly line-up with the conventional meaning of the term. its interesting how widespread this tactic is on the right to me? idk it just seems representative of a lot of the anxieties that ppl on the far-right have abt modernity, the search for authority &c.
― LEGIT (Lamp), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:19 (eight years ago) link
Dawkins is probably the ultimate "LOGICS FIRST, EMPATHY NEVER" poster bloke in this regard.
― nashwan, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:20 (eight years ago) link
i tend to think people who appeal to logic do so as a way of bolstering their authority as a speaker, not so much in the service of argument. ethos over logos, in rhetorical terms. using "logic" to justify an emotionally held belief is cart-before-horse stuff and extremely common
― gwyneth anger (patron sailor), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:21 (eight years ago) link
Logic blows lmao
― 龜, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:22 (eight years ago) link
logic is good for finding out who is a bitch ass nerd
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:25 (eight years ago) link
h8 rationalism
― LEGIT (Lamp), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:27 (eight years ago) link
LG that is exactly what I meant, I am just really confused by the fact that "actual logic is good" is a stance you are trying to take
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:28 (eight years ago) link
Lamp gets it
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
#actually logic is good
all nerds love logicall twitter nerds are dumb babiesgive richard dawkins a wedgieQED
― gwyneth anger (patron sailor), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:32 (eight years ago) link
Fav for modus ponens, RT for modus tollens
― big WHOIS aka the nameserver (s.clover), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
tbh posting qed at the end of all my tweets seems super legit.
― LEGIT (Lamp), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:39 (eight years ago) link
hey nerds... check this out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic
*every nerd deactivates their twitter and logs off forever*
― 龜, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:41 (eight years ago) link
I think what the right-wing/libertarian "logic" crew fail to realise is that valid arguments aren't necessarily sound ones.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:48 (eight years ago) link
remember when glenn greenwald used to respond to everyone who made fun of him lmao
― lag∞n, Wednesday, December 2, 2015 5:47 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
hell yea good days
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:49 (eight years ago) link
(Plus, yes, lots of things lack bivalency and thus it's a futile effort to even apply logic in those realms.)
(xp to self)
― emil.y, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:50 (eight years ago) link
well some things are logical - i dunno how someone could entirely favour empiricism over rationalism - some issues are more weighted towards one and vice versa. even if you are saying "you can't understand this because you have not experienced it" - there are situations in which logically that is true.
― japanese mage (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 17:58 (eight years ago) link
what does bivalency mean?
i think logic is cool and we shouldn't let logic trolls give it a bad name, and we certainly shouldn't concede that right wing positions are "logical" and opt for non-logical justification for leftism. libertarians claim "logically," status all the time but they actually beg the question which is itself an epic logic fail. the logic trolls that i most frequently encounter are austrian economists, who have these clever and deceptively simple logical arguments justifying free markets.
― flopson, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 18:51 (eight years ago) link
oh the austrians. the apposite phrase i love most from those guys is "properly defined"
― goole, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 18:57 (eight years ago) link
terrorism is the ultimate logic imo when u think abt it
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 19:02 (eight years ago) link
omg you guys I am clowning him because "actual logic is good" isn't a stance to take, it is common sense
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 19:30 (eight years ago) link
did you know water is wet
let's expend lots of words on how thinking through your thoughts is a good thing
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 19:31 (eight years ago) link
is... it?
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 19:31 (eight years ago) link
i *thinks* am *thinks* thinking *thinks* now
― flopson, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 19:35 (eight years ago) link
that hurt