THE LEFTOVERS: HBO's nondenominational post-rapture series

i want to know what her mother's last words were!!!

Probably one more mystery left to dangle about, but my assumption is it was something really banal; in any case, Meg clearly didn't hear what she was looking for (profundity?), and didn't Isaac kind of indicate as much upfront?

<i>she couldn't give a fuck about the world forgetting or remembering the departure - she wants it to remember her and hurt like she used to.</i>

I love this, it opens up her performance for me a bit, the nihilism etc. (I am glad the GR are back; the cult aspect of the story interests me a lot. I would've been bummed if it had been dropped.)

Argh, now I see the link "show formatting help." Will try and get that right.

whether they were in on it from the start or have been converted.

I feel like they helped execute the plan. Remember how inconsistently they were acting throughout "Axis Mundi"?

Liv Tyler fucking killed it in that episode - who knew? Loved her spitting and her evil smirk walking away from the schoolbus.

Megan and the son are the best characters so far, so little exposition until now and they have been so devoted to the causes of others

A lot of the reviews I've seen of this ep have put it down as scary but meaningless; I thought it was especially rich. Forgive me if some of this is incoherent and repetitive!

Tom/Laurie and Megan are very similar in that they've hijacked their 'believers' to ameliorate some private pain – Laurie takes advantage of the Wayners to atone for her family, Megan constructs a schism from the Remnant to make sure that everyone is in as much pain as her.

Megan's splinter group's mission is like the Remnants' – to be a reminder – but she's refined it into a direct trauma-delivery mechanism, discarding a lot of the Remnant's superficial ('pointless') doctrine (silence, chainsmoking) along the way. The purpose seems to be less to remind people of the Departure than to show them that all life or joy is essentially meaningless. Not only the bus, but the scene in the roadside bar illustrates this for me, where she seems to hold out the possibility of pleasure, comfort, company, or just basic humanity to Tom and immediately withdraws it. (Tom goes gamely along with her because he can't imagine himself doing anything but following; his only experience as a leader was also as a fraud. Megan mocks his lack of self-reliance: 'hug yourself'.) The new Remnant group follows a typical pattern in terrorist organizations; each radicalized group growing out of the established, comfortable last is bent on being more shocking, more extreme (and strangely less devoted to an actual politically realizable goal).

The girls look to have been part of the organization for at least a year, possibly two. The current time of the show is the fourth-year anniversary; when Evie and Megan meet, it's been two years since the Departure. The cricket in the Murphy's house is most likely the phone, or a phone, that Evie uses to communicate with Megan (It's interesting that not only Evie but Erika as well are very insistent to John that he 'can't', not 'won't' find it). All the frolicking the girls were up to as seen in the first episode of the season were cover, so that they wouldn't be suspected as suicides a la Bridgend.

Why are the girls so distraught if they didn't suffer direct loss as a result of the Departure? This actually makes them perfect actors for Megan, because if they respond to the Remnant even if the Departure didn't touch them, they're an indication that the existential nausea and horror felt in response to the world is permanent and pervasive, the suffering universal and inescapable, and not just something you feel after a tremendous but momentary loss. Megan herself seems nihilistic no matter what her circumstances, present or past – it's just that now she's found a setting and a stage to allow her to spread a little of that pain around. (John Murphy is also of this type though not as severe; he seems anxious to prevent anyone from believing in salvation, not only to prevent people being hustled.) I believe that Megan actually did receive the answer she wanted from Isaac – the show is consistent in showing that the supernatural is very real, despite the doubts it leaves open – but, just as he warned her, the answer does nothing to address the anguish she's in.

If Kevin is a shaman, preparing for a 'battle', that battle wasn't with Patty, who was just an appetizer in service of showing Kevin what he's capable of. Patty had real human needs, feelings, and troubles which she responded to by being vicious along with continually broadcasting her distress. Megan on the other hand is just out to inflict harm with as little small talk as necessary, and we have no real sense of her having facets to her personality. The pure nihilism she embodies is the real Adversary.

What the plan is involving the girls and the bridge, I can't see; the three nooses on the bridge in the episode before might be foreshadowing, but the girls sacrificing themselves in public would have less impact than letting everyone stay convinced the girls Departed. Though if they did announce that while they were 'spared' they wish they hadn't been, before they died that would be hard for everyone to take. The explosives I think are a red herring for the bridge plot; I think they have more to do with the earthquakes or water being drained, though I have no idea how. It's possible the girls won't simply be sacrificed but that the townspeople themselves will be roped in and not simply be an audience. In Megan's conversation with Matt, Matt's suspicions of her are confirmed when she says they're both interested in the town 'because it's safe' - meaning that she's interested in destroying that sense of safety. She wants Miracle to be yet another place where horrible things can happen, and it might not have anything to do with the Departure or the Departed at all. Maybe that 'changes everything' but it seems a stretch.

And with all this I'd completely forgotten the cavewoman opening scene of the season, which might just be 'it has ever been thus' symbolism and might never be referred to or called back again!

So much to like in that post, thanks.

I don't think anyone's getting blown up 'killed', if that was going to happen the school bus would have provided the test run for that. Hanging might still be an option yet.

Is it possible that one of her other plants in the town has been raping Mary? Matt doesn't start using the video until after the 'special night'.

im sort of skeptical that they can wrap all this up in an (artistically) satisfactory manner in just one episode, but then when you realize that the core events of the season have all taken place over a few days (a week at most?) then it starts to seem possible. if they stick the landing in even just an adequate way this has to be one of the best seasons of a tv show in recent memory.

im sort of skeptical that they can wrap all this up in an (artistically) satisfactory manner...

l i n d e l o f !

I can't fully express why but my sense is that Tommy will be killed off possibly while engaged in some act of (perhaps not immediately obvious) heroism, I.e., doing something to fuck with a particularly nefarious part of Megan's plan. He is a kind of formless character, he doesnt look like he can handle much more confusion and pain, and I'm not sure where else his story can go anyway. I will be surprised if there are no casualties, though one which will feel like a greater loss to people on the show, ie Jill and Laurie, than to people in the audience. For that reason alone, I can't imagine the girls getting killed or (especially) committing suicide - they're still quite young and I just don't see the show inflicting that on the audience, though who knows? The show is pretty fearless.

i'm not fully up to speed w/ this thread, cos i'm not fully uts with this season, but i'm really loving this show. all the ambient details of how the culture is shaped and continues to flow out of this huge trauma, so smartly imagined.

i have to say i'm liking s2 a bit less than s1; less of an unfolding mystery vibe than a waiting-for-the-scare-moment. i don't have much faith in lindelof. but we'll see!

xxp aaaaand there it is lol

i think the first season was wrapped up well enough as one thing (albeit w the convenience of a book-based foundation) to dim concerns about them all ending up in a multidenominational church

i'm not fully up to speed w/ this thread, cos i'm not fully uts with this season, but i'm really loving this show. all the ambient details of how the culture is shaped and continues to flow out of this huge trauma, so smartly imagined.

catch up!

i liked season 1 more than most but 2 somehow keeps the deeply moving emotional undercurrents and mixes it up with a greater playfulness and vibrancy--it's not so monochrome this season. plus it's just so wonderfully acted and directed and written, almost without exception. i dunno beyond just feeling "i like this, I am vey moved by this" im having trouble explaining to myself or others what's so great about this show other than its uncanny (using that word again) ability to create compelling situations that are simultaneously character driven and just about as broadly relatable as something can be.

it's not at all plot driven and i wonder if that's a big problem for it in the instant recap era of tv. it's hard to endlessly speculate about a show when just about anything is possible. actually, i havent noticed recaps so much for any show these days--have they mercifully fallen off?

Chickie otm i think in that Tommy will play a key role in the finale.

It's a pain trying to link from my phone but the final episode trailer is on YouTube and it's... Obscure. Though: Mary!

Also, having expressed out loud that Tommy will die I now fully expect nothing of the sort will happen. Elimination by speculation, I call it.

worth nothing that the finale is supposedly 75 minutes.

that's good, i figured they'd need some extra time

Is it possible that one of her other plants in the town has been raping Mary? Matt doesn't start using the video until after the 'special night'.

I think that would violate Ebert's Law of Economy of Characters (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=361247)

i dunno beyond just feeling "i like this, I am vey moved by this" im having trouble explaining to myself or others what's so great about this show

It's so thematically and symbolically rich, but if you're immune to taking that trip and focus just on the actions and attitudes of the characters it's exceedingly grueling. Everybody I've tried to turn on to the show reacts like I've just shoved their arm in boiling water

Also cosigning on Tommy's upcoming demise. Aside from Jill he's the worst offender in not having an arc or any development

Take that back about Jill, she is obviously not nearly as tortured and self-destructive as S1. Though a lot of that has to do with her in-a-family circumstances

everyone's covered my thoughts abt this ep so well itt, all I have left to say is

U GUYS, THIS SHOW

re: Jill, I loved the scene a few episodes back where it was revealed that she and Michael had been seeing each other for a little while offscreen. So many unimportant would-be preceding scenes, shaved right off.

Just got caught up with ep9. What the faaaaaaaaaaack

Wow

that was p much perfect

yeah loved it. laughed out lout a surprising number of times, particularly at "Because it's STUPID!" and the Verdi starting up again.

so good

I am feeling pretty optimistic about the show's renewal chances but I would be TOTALLY ok with that being the series finale

god that was beautiful & hilarious & heartbreaking & weird & joyous

i just want to cry and think about this show

spoilers obv but when you are ready, def read this breakdown with Reza Azlan abt the finale

http://www.vulture.com/2015/12/the-leftovers-season-two-finale-questions-reza-aslan.html

and remind me I want to talk about John & Kevin as neighbors

god that was beautiful & hilarious & heartbreaking & weird & joyous

i just want to cry and think about this show
--Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl)

this is kinda what I wanna do with the rest of my life tbh

this was amazing.

maybe the best episode of any show i've seen this year.

I jumped on this after the first fifteen mins of the pilot. Worth the effort to try again?

yes

Every single thing I read about this makes it seems like a "John From Cincinnati"-level neo-conceptual mess.

uh, no

never saw JFC but The Leftovers takes is a show that takes wild conceptual gambles and routinely has them pay off.

Just wondering, going by the weird reactions to this last episode, if it were the series finale would you be satisfied?

yeah it works very well as a series finale, but that's because it completes a really satisfying arc for the more-or-less main character. but there's a lot of other characters who could carry the show. hoping next season (being hopeful) focuses more on Nora, personally.

yeah the only real downer for me about the last few episodes was that she took a real backseat, though her emphatic "shut the fuck up!" was a delight.

it is the only thing I've seen that gives equal weight to the faithful, the doubtful and non-believers... allows them
all to exist together, even problematically... but also acknowledges that those states can also be experienced by one person sometimes simultaneously

it's so spiritually rich, layered with symbolism & meaning and as mentioned upthread, a lot of it pays off. it's not just for show

yeah i like how it takes faith as a serious thing, but as an everyday thing, too. really glad they allowed matt the priest to soften from a driven prig -- like oh great, another snarling preacher character -- to something more admirable over two seasons. and poor janel maloney! what a thankless acting job.

ecclestone said in an interview that Matt is his favorite character he's played

look, i still harbor huge fears that if this thing goes on it will just fall apart under its own weight because l i n d e l o f. but for now i'm really impressed that all the interlocking stories, the flashbacks, the layers, are just so well fitted together

xp oh nice :)

is there some danger this won't get renewed?

are we left to imagine that the three disappeared girls were seduced into the GR via some kind of self-radicalization process on the internet, a la ISIS?

yeah the show takes place in a kind of heightened reality but it's using that idea to simply clarify the stakes of everyday life. like, with people's varied reactions and responses to the departure i often think "yeah, people do cope (or not) that way" and it's often tremendously cathartic to recognize that.

there's a great deal of danger it wont be renewed. praying there's some exec at hbo in lindelof's corner.

are we left to imagine that the three disappeared girls were seduced into the GR via some kind of self-radicalization process on the internet, a la ISIS?

this is what i thought. teenagery discovery of adult hypocrisy finds ready outlet.

i'd love for it to be renewed but if not it was a fine series finale