why must every moderately successful store in the UK be immediately turned into a chain?

mark presumably these crappy, expensive butchers will not become even moderately successful and therefore will not become chains.

xpost ok ailsa, but i do get that impression a lot. i.e. "going out to eat in the UK is a big deal" - i.e. special, fancy - UNLESS you go to low-pressure, universally-acceptable chains.

isn't it amazing how self-identified lefties can get suddenly patriotic when someone besides them "criticizes" something about their country?? (i speak from experience, here)

^^^Me - accept it's not patriotism more frustration with people who want everything right all the time and don't want to pay for it and they want a tax rebate with that and free money and the sun to shine every day.

Meanwhile...

Hotel Chocolat seems to be expanding at quite a rate and I cannot believe they will be able to maintain quality...ahem...across the brand. I don't know why that is though.

I was discussing this the other day; comparing London to NYC and Chicago and even Orlando (on the north side, not down by Universal/Disneyland). London is much more chain dominated than these US cities Starbucks is easier to find in London than New York. i think we give into the chain values thing very easily here.

There are two questions here. Why do the brits love chains more than, say, the Italians?

Why does most people founding a retail business have 'chain' in the back of their mind when they do it?

One feeds off the other, of course. It comes down to the money. The culture of money is very much get as much as you can as fast as you can. Look at the expansion rates of Leon, Bodeans, or Masala zone. No one goes out to found the best rib restaurant in town and be satisfied with that and the money it brings in. I think people measure their success now, not by absolute sums of money, but by growth rates.

i do get that impression a lot. i.e. "going out to eat in the UK is a big deal" - i.e. special, fancy - UNLESS you go to low-pressure, universally-acceptable chains.

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:16 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

that's kind of about right -- proper restaurants require booking and shit.

eating out was a big deal when i was growing up, and as dom will attest, i'm fairly middle-class.

dom i have been to bishop's stortford, that was enough for me

i haven't been to orlando, new york, or chicago, but damn, this culture of money is some bad shit and must be stopped.

Maybe we should nuke 'em all.

And their mewling brats too.

I've been to all three places.

I have no point to make, just wanted to say that.

money, capitalism, it's just none of it working out really.

Did I say that.

I think there has been a change in the culture of money over the last 10-20 years, which is interesting to note, whether it is wrong or right.

Further question - does the rise in chains contribute to the concentration of wealth and the decline in social mobility over the same period?

No.

i must go and ask my 93-year-old grandmother about the wonderful range of quality food available to her in in 1930s liverpool.

This doesn't mean the food that is in our shops and restaurants is of a good quality. It may be a different issue - but the spraying and coloring and storage of today's food isn't something I think is good for our health

yeah, going out to eat was a big deal when i was little too - even if it was to taco bell - going out is always fun, an event

I was quite astounded by some documentary recently that claimed Long life milk, GM crops and so on were more green, because of the economies of scale implicit in being able to store absolutely tons of it for long periods.

I mean, yeah I know what they are saying, but then...

it's an interesting question re social mobility. devil's advocate: running a shop you hand on to your kids isn't doing much for social mobility. (a lot of local shops are franchises now, i suppose.) but working up through the ranks of tescos could be.

xpost

Well, most of the "evidence" to the contrary is bullshit so yeah why not?

The kind of unique and independent eaterie we should be encouraging:

http://edwinmak.com/?p=260

In the US it seems obesity is something that strikes the poorer sections of society. Given that we are agreed that supermarkets bring greater choice at lower prices, is this something of a surprise?

So we should keep the peasants away from discount cakes for their own protection.

I just wasn't sure if we were supposed to be blaming poor people for being overweight, or whether the increased access to better foods at lower costs was helping them

I think we should blame them for being overweight and for eating awful frozen food in poorly designed restaurants.

i have attempted to eat at enis's but didn't have enough time to stay and sit and wait for the incredibly slow service - instead i got fish and chips to go at "fishcoteque" - but yeah it feels like a portal to another dimension

noodle i don't know wtf this thread has to do with "poor people"

or "peasants" as you say

In the US it seems obesity is something that strikes the poorer sections of society. Given that we are agreed that supermarkets bring greater choice at lower prices, is this something of a surprise?

-- cedar, Monday, November 5, 2007 12:32 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

wow.

i think sometimes it's nice to attribute human agency to poor folks.

I was responding to cedar's post about "poor fatteys".

If you don't see how criticising chain restaurants and cheap food might have class implications, you really are being disingenuous tho.

Criticising it in the way you did, specifically. Like it's just a question of bad taste.

The chain restaurant phenomenon isn't restricted to the bottom end of the market, we have chicken Cottage up through, Nandos, Pizza Express, Giraffe and Bodeans all the way through to Conran or Gordon Ramsey's portfolio of restaurants.

Damn, now I'm hungry.

Actually I agree re:human agency.

So why do lower income groups in the US have higher rates of obesity?

wagamama is pretty good but i agree with the thrust of what tracer says in this thread.

the rich ones seem pretty fat too, to be fair.

xpost

xpost

So am I and I think I am going to cycle of for a non-chain chinese bun, but last time I did this I was diverted by the chain Bodeans, it could happen again especially as today is a day for burnt ends.

In America, streets are paved with cheese.

noodle vague in what way is wagamama "cheap"?????

I don't even know what a wagamama is. In what way is it bad?

it doesn't use fresh-sourced peasants, it uses pre-ground peasants

Anarcho-punk collective, had a big hit with "Tubthumping".

xp

aren't wagammama dolls banned now?

xxpost

I think not even trying to make sense might be a sign of bad faith.

Burnt ends are Sunday and Wednesday, I thought? Hmm I have a Bodeans 100 yards from my office (BUT I'M ON A DIET NO NO NO).

Is there anyone here whose FAVOURITE place to go out to eat (not some £100 a head restaurant, somewhere reasonable) is a chain restaurant?

Not me.

This thread still has a way to go before it matches Tracey's DAEREST BRITISHES: WHY YOU NO WASH DISHES PROPERLY?

all the chinese buns shops are run by the triads, ed!

wagamama is cheap when you get those 2 for 1 vouchers

it's my favourite place to go for lunch. in a way that is because there is a lack of good cheap noodle shops in the vicinity.

but that also brings a point - near where i work, in central london, it must cost so much to set up a business that, almost all of the time it is going to be a big chain store who can afford to do this???

on holloway road there are quite a few indie food stores. although amici had a shop down the road

if your business is doing well, and you have the capital to expand the business, and the market is there to absorb your growth, why wouldn't you do it?

there are probably loads of moderately successful shops that do not branch out. but you will never hear about them because there's only one?

xpost conscience and a concern for the traditional profile of the area.