The Coddling Of The American Mind (Trigger Warning Article In The Atlantic...)

the section people have been objecting to is this:

I wonder, and I am not trying to be provocative: Is there no room anymore for a child or young person to be a little bit obnoxious… a little bit inappropriate or provocative or, yes, offensive? American universities were once a safe space not only for maturation but also for a certain regressive, or even transgressive, experience; increasingly, it seems, they have become places of censure and prohibition. And the censure and prohibition come from above, not from yourselves! Are we all okay with this transfer of power?

this is pretty funny in a way. idk the exact social racial dynamics at yale but i'll assume when controversies like this spring up, they don't come out of nowhere. people who have to deal with this shit are beyond sick of this kind of devil's advocacy.

whether she should lose her job as a teach, no, the letter in itself is anodyne enough. in her role as the house-master of a group of students; if they've come to distrust and dislike her enough, then yes.

her admonition to not trust institutional authority (the only part of this that rings true to me) is pretty funny. it ended up being taken to the nation as a whole. don't complain to the admin, take it up amongst yourselves! well, they did.

American universities were once a safe space... for a certain regressive, or even transgressive, experience

the response is that they are a perfectly "safe space" for all that stuff right now! "become places of censure and prohibition"? is that what telling kids to maybe lay off the blackface amounts to?

what's really interesting is that the email begins "Nicholas and I have heard from a number of students who were frustrated by the mass email sent to the student body about appropriate Halloween-wear." i wonder who these kids were. who is really making a mountain out of a molehill here? at the very least it suggests a much more tense social environment

as you all know i am a hater of halloween so objections that the expressiveness of your costume is being limited are p much lost on me

"Events this week at the University of Missouri and Yale University should remind us all of the importance of absolute fidelity to our shared values." -President of Purdue

so what's a stake here is basically some form of religion

in the sense that a religion is also a collection of shared values, yes

People talk about racial identities all the time when they harp on how terrible identity politics are but very few people point out that the most pernicious, self-serving, harmful identity people latch onto in the face of criticism/discomfort is "nice person".

MTV needs to do Real World 2015 Ivy League Edition to purge us of our sins

executives there obv asleep as they've passed on bidding for the republican debates not once but twice

People talk about racial identities all the time when they harp on how terrible identity politics are but very few people point out that the most pernicious, self-serving, harmful identity people latch onto in the face of criticism/discomfort is "nice person".

― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, November 12, 2015 1:21 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, that was a thought i had too, given the passive-aggressive and subtly coercive nature of that email

(which still doesn't justify some of the more extreme reactions to it)

and the one valuable kernel of that email--that students stand to lose something if their first recourse is always to appeal to bureaucracy

I just think she totally fails to see the comedy here: she wrote this email in the first place because some students felt bruised by a different email about their Halloween costumes and ran to the master to see what she could do about it

^ precisely

as you all know i am a hater of halloween so objections that the expressiveness of your costume is being limited are p much lost on me

― goole, Thursday, November 12, 2015

do you wanna get married or are a hater of marriage

is anyone calling for the associate master to be fired? Legitimately asking--early on there was no evidence of this except for one confrontational student in the video. The initial statement by Yale students/faculty did not ask for her to step down iirc, though the initial FIRE article jumped to that conclusion without evidence.

it takes a lot of growing up i think to not be trolled by an effectively passive-aggressive email.

but at this point that means essentially blaming the yale students for failing to have assimilated the internet hardman rules

the big heated debate on youtube was important in that what it shows is the yale students were trying to argue with the dude and he kept blowing them off and telling them that he knew things and they didn't, and repeatedly doubling down, at which point they again were effectively trolled.

experienced academics are great at being total dicks without just losing it and screaming at you -- its a storied tradition

we need to send tombot to yale to straighten all this out. he can hold a workshop.

experienced academics are great at being total dicks without just losing it and screaming at you -- its a storied tradition

― big WHOIS aka the nameserver (s.clover), Thursday, November 12, 2015 1:36 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hmm

People talk about racial identities all the time when they harp on how terrible identity politics are but very few people point out that the most pernicious, self-serving, harmful identity people latch onto in the face of criticism/discomfort is "nice person".

lol i tried a gambit like this on my first day of ethics class: 'do you think that your parents are good people?'

not surprisingly, very little traction to be had there

hmm

― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, November 12, 2015 2:44 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

;-)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

UPDATE 11/8/15 – FIRE has heard secondhand reports that one or more people in these videos have received threats of violence or death. We do not know whether these reports are valid or whether the alleged threats are credible. Regardless, FIRE condemns any such threats in the strongest terms, and reminds viewers that true threats of violence are not protected speech and that credible threats of violence against any person can and should be investigated by law enforcement.

https://www.thefire.org/yale-students-demand-resignations-from-faculty-members-over-halloween-email/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTdk4GWUcAEOYi9.png

https://www.thefire.org/mizzou-professor-demands-muscle-to-remove-student-journalists-police-claim-hurtful-speech-can-be-punished/

I don't think the writer of the email should be fired, no. Maybe she should step down from her residential thingy position which doesn't sound like all that big a deal anyway.

What she expressed is, unfortunately, a very typical white American sentiment, and of course it has white supremacist implications although I can't say whether the writer fully appreciates that based on the text. The "freedom to offend (minorities)" is such a cretinous concept -- it might be defensible in the most abstract sense of testing the outer limits of free speech or whatever, but anyone who actually strongly cares about it is a disgusting savage.

is a disgusting savage.

hate speech IIRC

"Events this week at the University of Missouri and Yale University should remind us all of the importance of absolute fidelity to our shared values." -President of Purdue

so what's a stake here is basically some form of religion

― rap is dad (it's a boy!)

in the sense that a religion is also a collection of shared values, yes

― Mordy

it just seemed hella dogmatic is all. there's clearly other things at stake here than just Mitch Daniel's call for moral absolutes

I don't think the writer of the email should be fired, no. Maybe she should step down from her residential thingy position which doesn't sound like all that big a deal anyway.

The residential thingy position is tied directly to her residence, which is also tied to her husband; it will be difficult/impossible for her to "step down" without taking him with her and they'll definitely have to move out of the housing they're currently in.

OIC. No, I don't think she should step down then, but I have a real problem with the email and the attitudes behind it.

I'm not sure if anyone has gone into how the housing system works but "colleges" at Yale are upperclass dorms; you get into one starting your sophomore year and you live there for the next three years of school, with the intent being that you are part of a community of students all living under the broad care of a faculty member living in the residence with you. That faculty member and his/her spouse (as they are usually married people) are the masters. The reason this is a big deal is because the faculty members responsible for building community and making the students who live in their residence feel welcomed and like the belong, as part of their baseline job description, are othering the kids underneath their care.

This article is a good perspective on this, from a Yale alum: http://time.com/4108632/yale-controversy-belonging/

ok that's helpful, I had no idea about this stuff, went to a state school and moved off campus after first year

Yeah, it's not like this is an RA or someone responsible for a floor; this is someone responsible for the well-being of the entire dorm hamfistedly communicating with the students she's supposed to be looking out for. Now, bear in mind that "look out for" does not mean "agree with" and shouldn't, BUT given that this started because one group of students felt that they were being condescended towards by suggestions in a campuswide email, the solution probably shouldn't involve being condescending to another group of students.

http://m.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_4a05d70e-99fe-539f-9097-8415205caafd.html?mode=jqm

Black students take over VCU's president's office to demand changes

BY LOUIS LLOVIO Richmond Times-Dispatch | Posted 3 hours ago

About 30 Virginia Commonwealth University student activists took over the school president’s office Thursday morning demanding, among other things, an increase in the number of black professors and more cultural competency training on campus.

The students took over first floor of the office on Franklin Street about 10 a.m.

They read a prepared letter expressing their solidarity with students at the main campus of the University of Missouri and a list of changes they are demanding from VCU officials.

What followed was not a 1960s-style protest rife with tension but an open and frank conversation about the issues black students confront at VCU.

The students talked about feeling like outsiders on campus and alienated at a place to which they turned to improve their future. Several said they were angry and felt abandoned by the university.

Participating in that conversation was Michael Rao, VCU’s president, who came downstairs when he heard the students and sat on an end table listening to them for more than two hours.

Their main concern is a lack of black professors at VCU. They say it’s often difficult for them to deal with educators who don’t understand their cultural concerns or the experience driving their thoughts and world view.

A lack of black professors also means that other students are missing out on a valuable educational point of view.

VCU says 5 percent of its professors are black. Fifteen percent of the student body is black.

Coupled with their classroom concerns is a feeling of being an outsider on campus because there is no effort being made to foster a community for black students, they said.

“You can go a whole four years talking to white people, being taught by white people and not having anything to do with black people,” sophomore Reyna Smith said.

Among the demands are to double the number of black faculty members to 10 percent of the total number of professors by 2017, to have at least one of every three candidates interviewing for a faculty position be black, and to create a position to make sure the policies are being implemented.

The students also demand the creation of a cultural competency course for all students and the hiring of an ombudsman so students have someone who will understand their experiences and concerns.

The students also want to see an increase in funding for cultural organizations and events on campus.

For his part, Rao sympathized with the students and encouraged them to talk about their concerns.

He told them that their concerns are not a complete surprise and that VCU is taking steps to bring more black professors into the university.

Still, he said, it must be acknowledged that black students have a unique perspective and that the university needs to work to bring about fundamental change.

“Students of color can’t take on the burden themselves,” Rao said, adding, “I very much have the same vision for VCU. I think there’s greater capacity to do what we know we need to do for all fellow human beings, and it needs to be a model for the rest of the nation.”

ilxor with the logical conclusion. LOCK THREAD!

http://gawker.com/maybe-the-college-kids-should-destroy-college-1741946658

I agree with the second part

we need to send tombot to yale to straighten all this out. he can hold a workshop.

yes he can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3PvcpWbUIg

can we all at least agree to fire mitch daniels

an increase in the number of black professors and more cultural competency training on campus.

"cultural competency training" = be very very careful what you ask for

i would tell you guys stories about the "diversity workshops" i had to attend as a teacher here but i don't really want to relive the abject pointlessness.

I'm not sure teachers having pointless experiences equals 'careful what you ask for' for minority students?

with regards this kind of racial awareness/diversity training: do the students demanding it believe that it can be taught in such a way that it is useful and does make people consider points of view they hadn't previously considered, better understand how they should conduct themselves?
or is it more of a symbolic thing, that the university making this kind of course mandatory equals the university admitting that there is a problem, it sends a message to students and faculty that this is something the uni takes seriously and that the uni may punish students or faculty if they mess up? (or if they the university doesn't agree to make this kind of training mandatory then that gives the protesters something tangible they can point to as evidence that the university is not doing enough to combat racism, rather than others ways the uni is being responsive which may be more difficult to pin down/rally around?)

I suppose it gets rid of plausible deniability, so people can't claim that they had no idea that blacking up for halloween or whatever could be offensive if they have been explicitly told that this was the case?

interview focusing specifically on the involvement of the football team in the Missouri protests and the possible ramifications for the NCAA going forward:
http://www.salon.com/2015/11/13/im_sure_it_scares_the_living_sht_out_of_them_why_the_protests_at_the_university_of_missouri_may_have_the_ncaa_terrified/

Will be interesting to see if the NCAA would really try to lock down coaches and players protesting and what kind of backlash would follow.

I'm not sure teachers having pointless experiences equals 'careful what you ask for' for minority students?

― Frederik B, Friday, November 13, 2015 1:44 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

didn't they advocating this sort of training for all /students/ and faculty, though? that's the impression i received. and yes i suppose these are being advocated less because of the faith they have in this sort of training than the symbolic value of the university acknowledging they are 'necessary.' which seems like a sad dead-end to me.

diversity training workshops have one real purpose only, and that's to provide deniability for the employer. 'we covered this in our diversity training workshop.' the actual substance of these workshops is no better than any other corporate 'motivational' workshop, that is to say, stultifying.

rather than others ways the uni is being responsive which may be more difficult to pin down/rally around?

this should have been unresponsive

lol as it happens I'm at a workshop called "Creating Culturally Engaging Campus Environment."

diversity training workshops have one real purpose only, and that's to provide deniability for the employer. 'we covered this in our diversity training workshop.' the actual substance of these workshops is no better than any other corporate 'motivational' workshop, that is to say, stultifying.

― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, November 13, 2015 3:15 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've been in very purposeful, pointed anti-racism/"undoing racism" training and discussion workshops that were extremely effective, but I think when you try to soft-pedal "diversity" so that it's palatable to everyone and doesn't focus on historic and contemporary violence done to ppl, sure, that would be pretty meaningless.

I don't want to think much about this argument, but I would like to remind people of how bargaining works. You don't expect to get your demands, you hope they will bring your opponents closer to what you want. Criticizing the demands of students is missing the point.

^^^

otm x 100

mordy is a clown

i also linked to the article he spent 20 posts flustered about maybe 100 posts ago

the right to the safe space for offensive halloween costumes is about free speech, but the right to a safe space free from offensive halloween costumes is about coddling