The Coddling Of The American Mind (Trigger Warning Article In The Atlantic...)

Why does the guy have to apologize for an email his wife sent?

c'mon that's mansplaining 101

Ha, was wondering that myself, Treeship.

They're asking b/c apparently he endorsed and defended it, and he's master of the house and she's assistant master or something.

I don't think the students are right to want these people to lose their jobs. Also, they aren't right in thinking the "residential" part of the residential college experience has nothing to do with fostering a sometimes uncomfortable community of diverse perspectives where rigorous debate is encouraged. Imo, this atmosphere is something that, in college, is meant to exist beyond the classroom.

This woman wasn't saying racist costumes were good, but that it wasn't the college's place to proscribe expression that seems taboo or shocking. Taboo-breaking offensive speech is often ignorant and worse than worthless -- harmful even -- but occassionaly it can be valuable. As a baby boomer and (i'm assuming) a progressive of the old mold, she seems to want to err on the side of more controversy, more debate, more discomfort, rather than more safety. This is a generational divide, honestly, and I think students and administrators need to fight it out more to come to some sort of understanding or consensus. Calling for people to step down is such a bullshit power move.

As is demanding apologies. That administrator is probably sincerely concerned about what it would mean for the college to police people's expression outside the classroom in the way these activists want. She shouldn't apologize for thinking this, or for having concerns that are different from the protesters. She is a person, and they are people, and they have different ideas about how the institution should be run and they should argue about it in good faith.

"he's master of the house and she's assistant master or something

Proper system, that

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Treeship, but does "students wanting these people to lose their jobs" actually amount to one or two people yelling "you should step down" in a heated moment? I don't see a call for a resignation or even a demand for an apology here. I also don't see proscription or censure in the Dean's original email: "we encourage Yale students to take the time to consider their costumes and the impact they might have" is not forbidding anything.

*amount to more than

"As a baby boomer and (i'm assuming) a progressive of the old mold, she seems to want to err on the side of more controversy, more debate, more discomfort, rather than more safety. "

Going to go out on a limb here and suggest not a lot of people dress in a way that Erika identifies as for Halloween.

"Imo, this atmosphere is something that, in college, is meant to exist beyond the classroom."

Going to go out on another limb and suggest the same about yourself.

"but associate master, being a thoughtless dickhead IS my halloween costume!"

*strokes chin* "you're onto something there"

I hope he's referred to as "associate master."

reading the original email email that the prof was responding to clarifies things too -- it just sort of said "hey, if you don't mind, maybe try not to be offensive or anything with your halloween costumes, 'kay?" there was never free speech imperiled or anything.

and the actual jobs these people have are as professors. the acting as a master of a house thing is a separate position from their direct academic post, and it comes with another set of responsibilities and expectations. #1 being, i would hope, that you encourage students not to be dicks to one another.

wish someone named CHRISTAKIS would play the hellenic-american-offended-by-american-universities'-GREEK-system card and stir shit up. greeks are a minority too you know and seeing their letters appropriated all over fraternity and sorority events and structures could create a hostile environment for them

Treeship OTM. I also like the idea of dressing up as Associate Master (oh Yale) for Halloween.

Why link to the story on FIRE's website, instead of the Post? FIRE are Koch-funded and assholes, imo. And that article is typical hypocritical bullshit. First it praises Yale for once being 'transgressive' and radically pro-free speech, then it shames all the students for yelling and shouting their demands.

Honestly, this might be one of the clearest examples of this debate as just a clover-leaf for old racist assholes to attack the youth for being young.

I've found FIRE's rating system relatively fair ime

Business-insider with another take on the story: http://uk.businessinsider.com/yale-university-racism-on-campus-2015-11?r=US&IR=T

'Shit is blowing up' at Yale because minority students are speaking up about the discrimination they encounter on campus, and the assistant master of a house decided then was the time to send out an email saying 'isn't there room to be racist anymore?'

But that is not the story that the Koch's are paying FIRE to write.

the problem w/ what she said isn't so much that people don't understand that kids often do things that are inappropriate that they later forget, but that an adult who knows better basically said "can't we just let kids act ignorant and be hurtful as they are wont to do?".

I def don't agree with the cries for their jobs (kinda feel like this is becoming a default reaction which makes me uncomfortable) but I get why people are pissed about it.

later *REGRET

also getting tired of people immediately responding to something that is merely a behavioral suggestion (and a good one at that) with "OMG U ARE TRAMPLING ON FREE SPEECH, next they come for our kidneys!"

this quote is out of an Onion story:

"Christakis is not hostile to any minorities," Cole Aronson wrote in the YDN. "To the contrary, by advocating a campus where feather-dress costumes are met not with tar, but with dialogue, Christakis treats all students as equals. Her opponents ought to emulate her."

"met not with tar, but with dialogue"

'hey do you like my blackface costume?'
"FUCK YOU!!!"

is about all the dialogue it deserves

i mean we've dialogued about these type of things for years. at this point everybody's position is relatively understood. and nobody dressing in such costumes is interested in dialogue, they're interested in people looking at them

bleh. I thought you wrote "this quote is NOT out of an Onion story".

i am too hung over to be online right now.

Onion-worthy.

come over -- I got tomato juice.

i mean we've dialogued about these type of things for years. at this point everybody's position is relatively understood. and nobody dressing in such costumes is interested in dialogue, they're interested in people looking at them

this is the beauty of the college freshman, they keep making more of them and none of them have ever had a day of dialoguing in their whole damn lives

I want to find the bureaucrat/administrator who came up with 'dialoguing' as a word, cover him in honey, and hurl him at a wasp hive.

kind of a tough Double Dare physical challenge but if you want that grand prize....

I think everyone should resign

i love how thoroughly unfun christakis' idea of halloween is

"everyone shut up, stop drinking, turn the music off -- we need to have a serious talk about my costume"

i think she just wants students to define for themselves what they deem unacceptable instead of having the administration dictate it. some people are allergic to anything that seems like paternalism. this might be the attitude ilx defines as "creepy liberalism" but that's where she seems to be coming from.

Ironically, many students seem pretty certain that they find her unacceptable. But that doesn't seem to worry her.

Or, y'know, she might just be racist?

please exit this world where "gentle suggestion with no threat of consequences" means "dictation"

if anything the email strikes me as the dean trying to remove any potential blame from the school in case controversy hits

I feel sad for people who don't see anything odd about a college sending out Halloween costume guidelines

xp removing potential blame was definitely part of the reasoning behind the email. another part though, i feel, was that the suggestion of paternalism sets of alarm bells for some people. "safe spaces" is a newly popular concept. it wasn't too long ago that young people pretty much always argued for less adults meddling in their affairs/telling them how to run their social lives

"hey mom, there's a girl at my school looks like this!" *pulls eyes back into squints* "chinky chinky chink!"

"son you need to understand something. i know you don't mean it but laughing at how someone looks and calling them names is hurtful"

"stop meddling in my affairs!!"

i.e. qualx majorly otm. trees you are really on the wrong road here.

Or, y'know, she might just be racist?

― Frederik B, Sunday, November 8, 2015

occam's razor slices again

wow, tracer workin a little blue today

"hey mom, there's a girl at my school looks like this!" *pulls eyes back into squints* "chinky chinky chink!"

"son you need to understand something. i know you don't mean it but laughing at how someone looks and calling them names is hurtful"

"stop meddling in my affairs!!"

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, November 8, 2015 9:45 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

university students aren't schoolchildren though, and treating them as schoolchildren is what these ppl who ascribe to the 'coddling of the american mind' viewpoint are complaining about right? I should say that the university email seems completely innocuous to me and that I think the associate master's response was wrongheaded and clumsy

xp removing potential blame was definitely part of the reasoning behind the email. another part though, i feel, was that the suggestion of paternalism sets of alarm bells for some people. "safe spaces" is a newly popular concept. it wasn't too long ago that young people pretty much always argued for less adults meddling in their affairs/telling them how to run their social lives

― Treeship, Sunday, November 8, 2015 4:32 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

please exit this world where "gentle suggestion with no threat of consequences" means "meddling in their affairs/telling them how to run their social lives"

I'm not even agreeing with her. I'm just saying that she should be allowed to have that perspective and the demands for her to apologize for it are ott

Like, she has a different line for where meddling begins than you do and the students do and also than i do. (I support the friendly reminder email ftr.) She should be able to have her own line and not be called a racist.

Occam's razor here would dictate you read her actual words instead of ascribing motives to her.

If we're pro free speech, then clearly I'm allowed to call her a racist?

Am I demanding you apologize or else step down from your job?

Am I saying you're Swedish guy named Johan? Are you drunk?

I have no idea what you're talking about right now?