I'm an alcoholic

whoa hey we got james frey up in here

Hypothesis: Going to any kind of meeting (book club, rotary club, knife fighting club) is just as helpful for alcoholics as an AA meeting. It's about filling in that hole, finding stuff to do/meaning in life/fulfillment that takes the place of the booze crave

But of course, nothing can substitute talking fellow alcoholics.. maybe alcoholic knife fighting club then

talking to fellow alcoholics. geez.

Not really. One can admit things to a fellow addict(s) one wouldn't admit to the book club or knitting circle. Making some human connection is much faster than for other shared "interests".

right. i'm just saying it can't be the only thing, i guess.

and tbh i'm kind of "talked out" at this point, have had my fill of bonding with other alcoholics for awhile.

not that i think i won't need that support ever again

have had my fill of bonding with other alcoholics for awhile.

nb: not on this board, just irl

the refuge recovery program and an attendant deepening of my buddhist practice have been really invaluable for me in the last 2 months sober. finally finishing my 'inventory' has been really hard and (uh) sobering as i've had to confront the ways this stuff has manifested not just in my recent past but throughout my life. it's been eye opening, heart opening. i'm learning a lot.

facing being human is the whole show. sounds like you are deep into it right now. you'll know it's getting better when you laugh.

btw, I'm not sure why monster mash revived this thread, but it sure looks like a pointless hit-and-run of a revival. wassup?

Maybe it's an explanation/apology for why he's pissing all over the Joanna Newsom thread.

I'm happy to go on record to say that most "alcoholics" are probably more in need of a scrip for naltrexone, a good (really good) therapist (who won't obsess or get overly distracted by the alcohol use disorder symptoms), followed by a psychiatrist who will write a scrip for something that will actually start to resolve the root cause issue(s).

AA is trash. There is no science that proves that it works for any appreciable percentage of people. We have a few famous anecdotes and maybe some of us have a few anecdotal relatives for examples. Basically nobody talks about the millions of people that AA has failed.

That's a little strong I guess. AA does work for some people. But the prevalence of the idea that it deserves to be the first preferred option for treatment is pretty much the worst.

Does AA fail any more often than other alcohol addiction treatment programs that are run on a shoestring by volunteers?

Probably about the same!

Having spent about 10 years around the recovery culture (rehabs, meetings, halfway houses, relapses, repeat repeat) I don't know that I've ever heard anyone claim that the 12 Steps failed them. But it's chicken/egg -- the program claims to work only for those who "work it", as in follow all 12 steps, a program which is so rigorous and involved that you can't complete it unless you've pretty much ceased abusing your substance chronically.

I've probly mentioned this before, but I'll rep for Smart Recovery, which is far more CBT-based and doesn't involve the potential for self-fulfilling labels:

http://www.smartrecovery.org

It's helped me out a lot.

yeah, smart really got me going & refuge kinda wedded the CBT to a buddhist framework i was more instinctively comfortable with--can recommend both to folks so inclined.

I did a yearlong group outpatient program through my medical provider. Helped a ton. CBT stuff, relaxation techniques, info about addiction, no moralizing. I used to drink heavily every night, now I drink a little every few months. I'm still a dunce, though. But I'm happier than I've been in a very very long time.

i should also say i'm on zoloft, which has REALLY helped the transition to occasional drinking. underlying depression, anxiety, blah blah. turns out you can't really drink if you want these pills to be effective.

Counterpoint: Zoloft drove me to drink (after 6-7 years, granted).

Probably also worth mentioning that I'm back on Lexapro after 5 years off--I think the renewal of meditation, sobriety, anti-depressants, and a clutch of new friendships all coming in at once have worked wonders for me overall.

I don't normally do longish posts and am pretty fucking shit at them, but this is what it is and it has been bothering me.

There is this dangerous person I grew up with who is possibly a psychopath. I don't have a FB account but about 5 years ago an old friend informed me he was using FB to stalk people and his latest tactic was maintaining a faux recovering alcoholic narrative to elicit sympathy or draw vulnerable people into his grasp, and one lass we went to school had bought this routine and had moved in with him. Just a couple of months later it was on the front of the local rag that he had subjected her to a violent assault that required hospital treatment, it was reported that he headbutted her and smashed her face into a coffee table.

Anyone who is switched on knows the guy is a menace. He has a history of extreme duplicity, fraud, theft and there are other far more unsavoury things. One example is when my niece (who was 11 at the time) told me he was asking her for naked pics on FB . I went crazy with my sister for not shopping him to the cops, but she didn't want to make a scene.

I say he is a psychopath because when I was 15 years old he once stole some of my paper-round money from my bedroom so I went to his house and threatened it back out of him. His mother complained that I was a thug, my mum retorted "well, he is a thief" and then she admitted he had a diagnosis of something like, erm from memory "psychopathic personality disorders" and had already been stealing from his granddad, who was in the latter stages of senile dementia.

I know alcoholics and drug addicts and am quite a heavy boozer myself and have a very good instinct for gravitating towards other boozer types. This fucker has never been an alcoholic and would make it look like hard work to become one. Some alcoholics drink Carling, but usually 10-20 a day at least.

His next move (after the violent assault) was to do a confessional piece in the local rag, cynically to wash away his last heinous crime. It is a criminally terrible piece, even by local rag standards. It contained no reference to his previous violent assault, nor the headline quote from the time "I will beat you all night long", just a lot of faux angst bs from a violent psychopath trying to stamp his own bullshit narrative on his own appalling history without taking any responsibility.

I am going off on this because this fucker has recently set up a local addiction support group on the premise that he is a recovered addict (which is patent bullshit) "who wants to put something back into the community". I dread to even contemplate how dangerous, or even useless he would be in the vicinity of vulnerable people looking for help.

Presumably this support group will just be a way to cultivate more victims

so he can assault them? i'm unclear on his m.o.

it would appear he lives in a smallish town? how could he get away with starting any sort group with his reputation?

so no one wants to do anything about the incident with your niece? that comes pretty close to a moral imperative i'd think

and though 'local addiction support group' rolls off the tongue, wtf is that really

I was assuming he wanted to get a lot of vulnerable people together to rip off or play head games with

AA groups can and do exclude the mean spirited. There's a fellow locally (New Orleans) who has banned from most AA meetings in town.

Boy, being banned from AA sounds like really really hitting rock bottom.

finally went to a meeting

good people

good to hear

lately playing off a lot of loneliness vs drunkiness, am trying to give loneliness a shot

loneliness is such an intense feeling... it's not like rage or anxiety where (in theory) i can catch myself early on and reset... loneliness is like a weird creeping fog that slowly permeates everything around me.. until all i experience glows harshly with despondent loneliness.

it's the suckiest miasma but i'm pretty sure going out and drinking (too much) isn't making it better in the long term. i've realised i really can't do much social interaction without the supportive hug of booze tho

I get that AA and its structure weird lots of ppl out but I've never found a more consistently welcoming and non-judgmental vibe anywhere. Go for it. There's no harm in trying.

I was running along a beach in SoCal at dawn yesterday and passed a VFW where it was clear that a meeting was gathering and the whole scene - beach, sunrise, AA vibe - made feel real good

For people who don't like AA, a friend of mine swears by http://www.smartrecovery.org/

Went to another meeting, different place. Buncha older people, pretty much fit the hardass trucker stereotype I have in my head. But they were hella nice and welcoming/forthcoming. Didn't realize it at the time but I felt great great great walking home.

Entering a S.L.E. soonish. Only thing I'm worried about is the food. Lol at me.

sounds cool, man

currently about 40 beers shy for April (3 a day), basically stopped entirely for the last two weeks. Getting sick with flu/cold garbage was the perfect excuse to quit. Last time I quit for two weeks was Peru in 2007, gonna go for a month this time. Spending the money on records :)

What is an SLE?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sober_living_environment

This some bullshit

talking to friends about not drinking would make me want to drink

in a nutshell, I decided to go cold-turkey in 2013, and loaded up on the pot (like, a bowl every 2 hours)

this supremely weaned my desire for booze (prior, i was drinking a liter of vermouth straight w/ Friday night pizza), then drinking wine to get rid of Saturday's hangover

Over the past 3 years, my alcohol consumption has really normalized -- i count how many drinks a year I have, and I've just broken 10 for 2016 -- 1 hangover all year

Over the 3 years, my usage of pot has been naturally decreasing down to "creative and/or recreational", so ultimately, it broke my alky cycle

Still a slippery slope tho, but counting the annual drinks and hangovers is working v well

nice

congrats PW

thanks airbody :-)

*check to see if I posted to thread previously, slowly shake my head, remember I really need to go to the gym instead of having that second whiskey*

also hi 5 to PW!

pw your current equilibrium is my goal for next year

anytime I'm invited for drinks, i kinda go into a state of "uh oh" -- am I ready? Can I count, today?

keeping check of my emotions and desires with each drink becomes a chore for remaining social -- I wouldn't recommend this tactic for everybody

Also, lol at my attempted apology tour of 2014 -- kinda annoyed people w/ emails and phone calls to say "hey, while I was a dick, you were great" -- and inferred a lot of "keep away until your better"

brad, keep us informed on your progress. seriously :-)