a clown car full of millionaires: the 2016 presidential primary thread

my basic breakdown is this:

1. I agree the most with Sanders. I would vote for Sanders in a primary.
2. I agree with both Sanders and Clinton enough that I could vote eagerly and enthusiastically for either of them in a general election.
3. Every Republican who has come forward so far seems to be fucking insane except maybe Kasich, with whom I profoundly disagree and would not vote for, and mmmmmmmmaybe Rubio on a good day if I don't listen to what he is actually saying?

xpost Psssh, Jack Tanner was proposing decriminalization across the board back in '88.

my basic breakdown is this:

1. I agree the most with Sanders. I would vote for Sanders in a primary.
2. I agree with both Sanders and Clinton enough that I could vote eagerly and enthusiastically for either of them in a general election.
3. Every Republican who has come forward so far seems to be fucking insane except maybe Kasich, with whom I profoundly disagree and would not vote for, and mmmmmmmmaybe Rubio on a good day if I don't listen to what he is actually saying?

This is exactly where I am except for the part about Rubio, who strikes me as an imbecile desperately in need of a punch in the throat.

yup, terrific breakdown. i guess i would subtract the eagerness, esp in HRC's case. but RBG doesn't get to pick her own replacement, does she (morbs come at me)

Are the republicans genuinely unaware that there's a sizeable number of people on the fence who aren't crazy about the idea of Hillary being president and who could possibly be persuaded to vote republican under other circumstances but who will either sit this election out or bite the democratic bullet because this year's entire crop of republicans range from useless to outright dangerous? I know any move towards centrism is paramount to treason, but why are they seemingly so unconcerned with persuading anyone who isn't already under their spell?

Like, I can't think of a better campaign ad than just showing an assortment of clips of the republican nominees and capping it off with 'Clinton '16: Because No'.

xpost Psssh, Jack Tanner was proposing decriminalization across the board back in '88.

Man, you are some old lunch.

The thing is, when dealing with an intractable Congress that is unwilling to govern, I see a lot of positives in having a ruthless, well-informed pragmatist who is more than willing to call people on their shit and, more importantly, has a few policy positions close enough to her detractors that she can pull some concessions from them on things that will upset me to make headway on things that will make me happy. To me, knowing that life will not give you everything you want is part of being a functioning adult in modern society and active disengagement because I'm not 100% getting my way is not an option this society allows to black people, ergo I will take the situation as it is and triangulate as best as I can to make the best possible life for myself, my family, the people I care about and society at large, in that order of priority, based on the policies of governance put forward by the leaders I hope to elect. This is why I am enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton as President of the United States; I see a way forward that can improve my family's prospects under her policies. I also see a way forward under Bernie Sanders. For most (if not all) of the Republicans, I make slightly under the amount of money I would need to make to benefit under their policies, and the amount of harm I forsee them causing others is great enough that I don't think I could consider myself a good person for profiting off of them.

re: conservative voters with Clinton antipathy who are planning on voting for her, I know at least 10 fiscal conservatives, some of whom who have never, ever voted for a Democrat in their lives, who have announced that they are supporting Hillary if the Republican Clown Show continues. They aren't even pleased with Rubio; they want Kasich or Paul. I am wondering if they are indicative of a trend in overeducated fiscal conservatives who are suddenly noticing that the Republican party is sacrificing the social liberalism they don't actually object to in order to embrace a frothing, blatant racism that they find unconscionable but could sweep under the rug when it wasn't being expressed by Republican frontrunners.

watching the cnbc republican debate right now

does ted cruz give off a serial killer vibe to anyone else?

Like, I can't think of a better campaign ad than just showing an assortment of clips of the republican nominees and capping it off with 'Clinton '16: Because No'.

Clinton's campaign is already giving away bumper stickers that say "We cannot afford a Republican in the White House" (in exchange for contact info, obviously).

Also, again, I'm pretty much 100% in agreement with DJP about this:

I will take the situation as it is and triangulate as best as I can to make the best possible life for myself, my family, the people I care about and society at large, in that order of priority, based on the policies of governance put forward by the leaders I hope to elect. This is why I am enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton as President of the United States; I see a way forward that can improve my family's prospects under her policies. I also see a way forward under Bernie Sanders. For most (if not all) of the Republicans, I make slightly under the amount of money I would need to make to benefit under their policies, and the amount of harm I forsee them causing others is great enough that I don't think I could consider myself a good person for profiting off of them.

Ted Cruz would eat Trump's face if it would make him President.

― rap is dad (it's a boy!), Thursday, September 17, 2015

DJP for president

old lunch, well, that just takes us back to the old "have to tack right in the primary to even make it to the general" thing, made worse this year by the shockingly good response trump got to his wall-off-mexico strongman steeze. the 'moderates' in the race, such as they are, are dead in the water.

does ted cruz give off a serial killer vibe to anyone else?

yeah he's the kind of dude who seems like a talented/dangerous politician when you read about him but then you see him on tv...and he starts talking...

Cruz gives off a smarmy, douchey and totally unelectable vibe afaic.

but he'll be the DD for the night. just make sure you get so wasted that you can't hear him talking to you on the way home. actually it might be better to just have him drop you off near your home, not in front of your actual home. and wait for him to drive off before you head toward your place.

you won't believe this, but it seems that some errors were made last night:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/28/fact-checking-the-third-round-of-gop-debates/

it's so weird how you can pretty much just make shit up at this stage. they sorta get called out on it, but the benefits of being able to make up facts outweigh the penalties

cruz is like someone doing an terrible snl impersonation of a politican. it's bizarre that someone who comes across so so poorly on camera has gotten anywhere in politics.

The Gawker article about Carson's blatant lies about his supplement company was kinda jaw-dropping. Seemingly zero allegiance to reality.

has a few policy positions close enough to her detractors that she can pull some concessions from them on things that will upset me to make headway on things that will make me happy

given the GOP House makeup and the recent pattern of complete obstruction I think it's safe to say that Hillary's legislative achievements are going to be close to zero. With very few exceptions, presidents optimally achieve the most legislative successes within the first couple years of their first term. But Hillary's first term is going to involve a completely intransigent and largely irrational GOP majority in the House for whom any compromise is tantamount to treason. No proposal she puts forward is going to pass there. Best-case scenario is continued stalemate and further exercises of executive power (possibly based on dubious attempts to expand said power), unfortunately.

This is going to be the deal until redistricting happens in 2020.

House is going to be gunning for impeachment from day 1 as well (they're already trying with this Benghazi panel bullshit)

@RealBenCarson
It is important to remember that amateurs built the Ark and it was the professionals that built the Titanic.

shakey otm. i have no illusions that bernie will be able to accomplish anything (major) good legislatively as president (or win the election for that matter), but if we're gonna have gridlock, i'd prefer the who i think would probably be better in terms of executive power (both in how he uses it and how he doesn't)

That Carson tweet is very tuned in to the evangelical mindset, but without a doubt it is not original with him or his staff. It's the kind of thing you see on reader boards outside churches.

apologies, if this has already been posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_yxGsWHx9o

also it's been a while since i've seen 2012 all the way through but the people building the ark seemed very well-trained and probably well-paid, idk

@RealBenCarson
It is important to remember that Obama do him a good job not

thanks Darin I was hoping there'd be one of those

the o'malley in that lip read video is unbelievable

@RealBenCarson
It is important to remember that Obama do him a good job not

I could not that Carson did him a bad tweet not

this part was surreal:

QUINTANILLA: "Does that not speak to your vetting process or judgement in any way?" [loud audience boos]

CARSON: "No, it speaks to the fact that I don't know what's going on"

i realize that the booing was so loud that his answer just kind of trailed off into it and was lost, but if you "don't know what's going on", isn't that indicative of...poor vetting or judgment? at any rate at least he admitted that he doesn't know what's going on

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/426270/what-ben-carsons-mannatech-answer-tells-us-jim-geraghty

His declarations that “I didn’t have an involvement with them” and “absurd to say that I had any kind of relationship with them” are just bald-faced lies.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/426270/what-ben-carsons-mannatech-answer-tells-us-jim-geraghty

wow that auto-insert of the url with every ctrl-c is some devilish shit, fuck you NRO

commenter on the case:

So Carson kinda, sorta did/did not make a passive/formal endorsement of a product he says to this day he uses. He worked through a speakers bureau, and may/may not have known or cared that the company used his taped speeches. And in the end you offer no real evidence, just your supposition that there was some kind of formal agreement for endorsement made in a back room, at some time in the past.

We're faced with a likely democrat candidate who SOLD the office of Secretary of State of the United States of America to highest bidding plutocrat around, as long as they came from a corrupti-stan or Haiti. To the tune of millions and millions of dollars: "As reported by ABC News, President Bill Clinton “saw a succession of staggering paydays for speeches in 2010 and 2011, including $500,000 paid by a Russian investment bank and $750,000 to address a telecom conference in China.” Let's not forget Haiti where Hillary's brother cashed in. Oh, and the Russian uranium deal ? Remember that one? "The New York Times reported that Clinton's State Department signed off on a deal that gave the Russians control over one-fifth of the United States’ uranium production capacity after millions were given in donations to the Clinton Foundation by the corporations involved."

What is really is reality anyway

Ben Carson/Jack Ryan '16

I'm just young enough to not remember anything about the first Reagan election. When he was running, was there a feeling on the left/amongst Dems that his presidency would be as destructive as it turned out to be? Even the first GW run, I didn't vote for him and never would have, but it was at least conceivable that he could be president, and I don't recall any looming apocalypse panic vibes in Dem camps, just disappointment. But at least half of the guys on stage last night, I truly can't even fathom how destructive they would be. I can't even wrap my head around a President Cruz, or Huckabee, or Carson or even Trump. Yes, I know they likely can't win, but it's inconceivable to me that they're even being humored. They go so far beyond mere Republicans and fall closer to some speculative fiction creation, a la Roth's President Lindbergh.

I feel like this really only kicked into high gear in the lead-up to 2012? I mean, there were certainly lunatics present among the repubs before then, but they were maybe more of a minority before McCain granted legitimacy to Palin and her ilk.

What is really is reality anyway

Used to think this a lot while high.

unreality is that which, when you stop believing in it, keeps getting cited as a fact by psychopaths

Reagan's first term accomplishments – first year really – set the state for the madness we heard last night. We lower deficits by lowering tax rates? Sure! Increase the Defense Department's budget by 200 percent? No problem. Lie detector tests in federal offices? Why not?

Yeah, but before he got elected, was there even a vibe that he would not be your usual president and that, in fact, would be quite destructive and/or counter-productive?

I'm really not up on this. Did he run explicitly promising to, say, cut the deficit by lowering taxes or doubling the defense budget?

He was even scarier during the Carter interregnum – so scary that he seemed unelectable.

As I recall it, Reagan was viewed through the lens of his then-recent stint as California governor, so it was already apparent that he was a reactionary who pandered to hatred of the progressive left, but his governorship wasn't seen as apocalyptic for California, so the fears weren't as visceral as they would be if one of the current crazies got the republican nomination.

Reagan wrought most of his destruction through filling cabinet posts and sub-cabinet posts with horrifying conservatives like Meese, Casey and Watt. Hundreds of these 'movement conservatives' from the far right Goldwater wing overflowed his administration. That was how he accomplished so much damage while taking a nap every afternoon.

I feel like this really only kicked into high gear in the lead-up to 2012?

Tea Party began 2009, source of a lot of incompetent idiots. Wiki:

An October 2010 Washington Post canvass of 647 local Tea Party organizers asked "which national figure best represents your groups?" and got the following responses: no one 34%, Sarah Palin 14%, Glenn Beck 7%, Jim DeMint 6%, Ron Paul 6%, Michele Bachmann 4%.

I like the idea that "no one" represents their interests, maybe the infatuation with outsiders like Herman Cain and Ben Carson?

http://www.theoi.com/image/L8.3Polyphemos.jpg

Every Republican who has come forward so far seems to be fucking insane except maybe Kasich, with whom I profoundly disagree and would not vote for, and mmmmmmmmaybe Rubio on a good day if I don't listen to what he is actually saying?

― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, October 29, 2015 4:45 PM (2 hours ago)

i actually feel bad for kasich when i see him sharing a stage with all those unpleasant creeps and smirking lunatics, it makes me feel more sympathetic toward him than maybe i should be.

essential reading, Josh:

http://d28hgpri8am2if.cloudfront.net/book_images/onix/cvr9781476782423/the-invisible-bridge-9781476782423_hr.jpg

reagan was extremely good at pandering to the right and the center so well that he completely marginalized the democratic party, i remember even as a kid just how powerless the dems seemed, so much so that clinton getting elected in '92 felt unreal.