a clown car full of millionaires: the 2016 presidential primary thread

bernie's strong and unambiguous response re: BLM was one of the best moments of the debate imo

don't think bernie's advocating an emulation of the politics of denmark. it's more like, look like there are many examples of laws and policies that lead to universal health care, cleaner energy, higher quality education, etc. Scandinavian countries like Denmark are full of policy success stories - perhaps we could learn something from them.

― 1999 ball boy (Karl Malone), Thursday, October 22, 2015 7:55 PM (23 minutes ago)

yeah, that's why i sort of differ with eric foner on this although i see where he's coming from -- there is a long and honorable tradition of american radicalism, but there are also a lot of other countries that are demonstrating that these are sensible and realistic policies which are entirely achievable. plus it's very rare that any candidate dares suggest that america could stand to learn any lessons from countries that aren't america.

agreed totally, just it'd also be nice to honor the americans who fought and died for X and Y, and politically it may be a more useful tactic for building new coalitions around these policies - "this is the party of franklin roosevelt, of social security" etc. while i don't want to accept the xenophobia as a given, maybe there is something to making it clear that a critique of unregulated market forces is not some alien idea, but deeply rooted in american political culture with benefits we take for granted today. five score years ago, your great-grandparents said, enough is enough, that while capitalism can build great wealth it cannot by itself guarantee justice. and they fought for the five-day work week, they fought for the eight-hour work day, they fought to end child labor... etc. etc.

yeah, i don't think talking about American predecessors and pointing to existing policies that have worked in other countries are mutually exclusive. he does a good job of talking about the latter, but not the former.

Foner's pointing out that our history isn't Denmark's. Also, while I know he died hundreds of years ago, but it's absurd that Democrats don't claim FDR's mantle the way the GOP does Reagan.

they don't?

I mean we aren't reanimating his corpse and fucking it on national television like the GOP do w Reagan but idk if I'd be into the Dems adopting that tactic

I can def recall Obama, Bubba, Hillz namechecking FDR

now i have a vision of the dem debates taking place at the fdr library with each candidate clamping a cigarette holder in his or her teeth and striving to sound as mid-atlantic as possible

they are all in wheelchairs

moderated by edgar bergen and charlie mccarthy

kind of amazed FDR's ghost hasn't gone all poltergeist on the Clintons

Dems might occasionally mention FDR, but Reagan gets mentioned by republicans 100x more frequently
Xpost

yes but also in a v superficial and historically inaccurate way - half the time they're praising him for things he didn't do. He's just a totem, "the last popular Republican President" that has positive associations in the country's cultural memory. They're just trying to exploit that, not genuinely emulate his policies or approach to governing.

whereas the only people who really remember FDR are nearing death. Any positive association with him requires accompanying history lesson.

at which modern Dems are so skilled, right?

xpost
yeah, i agree with that. i don't think raising FDR up to Reagan levels of worship would do much for democrats. you're lucky if people can remember even know what the new deal was

That's my point: creating a narrative that shows the evolution of labor relations, Social Security, banking protections, etc through the eighties before Reagan and Clinton started gutting them.

haha would be awesome if HRC said "I want to RESTORE the protections my husband destroyed!"

aw man that would lead to awkward pillowtalk between the two of them

which they're strangers to?

i'm sure they're making out all the time, just like all longterm couples do

http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/abc_abc_gores_kiss_100601_wg.jpg

looool that was one of the greatest moments in u.s. history

i think reagan is to the gop today what fdr was to an earlier generation, a fondly but somewhat mistily remembered figure who symbolized an era of unqualified success for the party. i saw a clip from one of jfk's campaign speeches a while back and there's a moment where jfk says something to the effect of "i represent the democratic party, which gave us franklin roosevelt, while mr. nixon represents the party that gave us (snort) HERBERT HOOVER!" while the audience titters. but that sort of thing only works as long as your audience remembers who herbert hoover was.

Sad or gross that the Dem collective memory of a successful Dem president was William Jefferson Clinton?

sad and gross like a presidential sexual encounter

Obama's gonna replace him tho

the president that killed OBL, that gave the country healthcare, that saved the economy from total ruin etc.

http://splitsider.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2011/11/bill-murray-hyde-park-on-the-hudson-image-e1320410220981.jpg

I have a keen interest in American politics, because American politics directly influences my life. Where America goes, Europe, and Denmark, follows. That's just how it is. The American president is called the 'leader of the free world' for a reason. I have a stake in this election, so I'm going to continue to post my thoughts on it. If you don't think anyone outside of the US can know anything about the US, then you have no idea about what the media focuses on in Europe.

And I read Deray's article the first time he tweeted it. Even though Bernie Sanders has started name-dropping BLM in his campaign - and I like that he does, I like that he's learning and improving on that front - I still think it's true that his campaign is suffering from the fact that his 'populist' narrative wasn't concerned enough with minorities from the beginning.

Also also, the idea that Americans wouldn't talk about what true French radicalism is, that's ironic, right? That American leftwing journal we're always discussing is called 'The Jacobin'. And oh yeah, the most influential thinker on continental radicalism is probably Brit Jonathan Israel.

Where America goes, Europe, and Denmark, follows. That's just how it is. The American president is called the 'leader of the free world' for a reason.

it's not 1952, there are a wide range of policy areas where this isn't true - European austerity vs. ARRA for ex., or Europe developing cap-and-trade markets long before the US did, etc.

his campaign is suffering from the fact that his 'populist' narrative wasn't concerned enough with minorities from the beginnin

yr insistence on this point is indicative of some fundamental misunderstandings about the history of campaigns similar to Sanders', the US media landscape, general level of interest in the voting populace in pre-primary campaigns, and the structural issues presented with a candidacy of Sanders' nature.

sad and gross like a presidential sexual encounter

― Οὖτις, Thursday, October 22, 2015 5:45 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

WJC's or FDR's (or GHWB's or JFK's)? Ronnie's dalliances preceded his Presidency afaic recall.

Peeps really don't know where Hillary launched her campaign, huh?

yr dorm room?

correction:
presented withby

That's my point: creating a narrative that shows the evolution of labor relations, Social Security, banking protections, etc through the eighties before Reagan and Clinton started gutting them.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, October 22, 2015 4:23 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fwiw elizabeth warren is good at pointing out precisely this.

You ever notice how you never see Danish Clark Kent and political insider Superman at the same time?

Oh, man, busted. It's true, I am in fact Bill Kristol...

Lincoln Chafee's out. It'll take a few days to assess the impact.

we may never truly know what might have been

former Republicans not doing so well in Dem race for some reason

hrm:

“Since today is all about women’s leadership it reminds me of one of my favorite Greek plays; Lysistrata, a comedy from about 400 BCE by Aristophanes. In that play, a group of women, fed up with the war mongering of their husbands, agree to withhold their favors until peace returns. And it worked!”

I bet we'll get some good tweets from Curt Schilling out of this.

I'd like a candidate whose ideas all come from the plots of comedies--"It worked for Ernest!"

Jeb Bush orders across-the-board pay cuts for struggling campaign

if the general really does turn out to be donald trump vs hillary clinton, can we get spy magazine back? i mean, we already got bloom county again

'90s revival has gone too far even if new Twin Peaks doesn't suck

Trump down in Iowa... is Carson gonna pull a Santorum?

show us his santorum

All of this round's republican candidates project Santorum imo.