a clown car full of millionaires: the 2016 presidential primary thread

lol

is David Broder dead

I look forward to his "I'm mad I haven't been granted equal time" platform

facebook is telling me some guy on twitter said someone told him biden is running..

is the media the only constituency clamoring for a biden run? well, the media and the credit card companies biden is a slave to..

some Fox News correspondent said Biden was running afaict

We talked to Sen. Sanders about making sure that people of color, who have been disproportionately criminalized in the informal marijuana economy, do not get locked out of the emerging legalized marijuana economy because of criminal records tied to possessing or distributing marijuana.
Sen. Sanders asked for additional clarity on some key points and noted that he had not heard this argument in this way before and would consider it.

is it?

or at the very least at the illuminati induction service

xp he may not have thought much about how marijuana criminalization would impact participation in the emerging legalized marijuana economy. it makes sense but i had never thought about it until reading that link.

i'll call bullshit on myself as a lazy reader in that i did not catch that as the meaning of that statement.
if there's passage for national legalization, is there a followup movement for general amnesty and expungement of criminal records for possession and sale?

that's the way I interpreted it too, Mordy.

national legislation isn't going to happen, this is going to be a state-by-state thing

that's what i heard about gay marriage too but things accelerate

no national legislation about gay marriage passed

unless you count the DOMA

We talked to Sen. Sanders about making sure that people of color, who have been disproportionately criminalized in the informal marijuana economy, do not get locked out of the emerging legalized marijuana economy because of criminal records tied to possessing or distributing marijuana.
Sen. Sanders asked for additional clarity on some key points and noted that he had not heard this argument in this way before and would consider it.

kudos for BLM's approach, which seems intelligent and systematic but wtf that Sanders, a lifelong liberal politician, had not considered that marijuana laws might be used as a tool for racial subjugation. i am pretty sure that's taught in first year law, no?

― a llove spat over a llama-keeper (forksclovetofu), Monday, October 19, 2015 6:04 PM (10 minutes ago

i'm a little confused as to what the "emerging marijuana economy" even refers to. the ability to buy weed? sell it? be prescribed it? the privilege of indirectly benefiting equally from an economy that may be boosted by marijuana regulation? i'm sure bernie is familiar with the racial aspects of the war on drugs. the question just seemed sort of oddly specific

anyway that was a good read and it's good that its led to some tangible changes in platforms/debate soundbites

ftr this is in Colorado's Retail Marijuana Code, re: rules about who can get a license to sell weed:

The Applicant can prove that he or
she has not discharged a sentence for a conviction of a felony
in the five years immediately preceding his or her application date;
7.
The Applicant can prove that he or
she has not discharged a sentence for a conviction of a felony
pursuant to any state or federal law regarding the possession, distribution, manufacturing,
cultivation, or use of a controlled substance in
the ten years immediately preceding his or her
application date or five years from May 27, 2013, whichever is longer, except that the State
Licensing Authority may grant a license to a Person if the Person has a state felony conviction
based on possession or use of marijuana or marijuana concentrate that would not be a felony if the
Person were convicted of the offense on the date he or she applied for a license;

some Fox News correspondent said Biden was running afaict
--Οὖτις

Seems like a foregone conclusion that he's running. Why would he wait if he's not going to run? And everyone seems to think it hurts Hillary and not Bernie but I've given up thinking Bernie can win, so I say burn the whole thing down. Not voting for HRC, that's for sure

yeah i'm sure those laws exist, and they should be rethought (if probably not discarded), but it's such a specific, minor instance of a downstream effect of the war on drugs that it's no surprise that someone wasn't even familiar with the particular issue

i mean the whole discussion they had with him was on major issues like broken windows policing, the wealth gap, the general militarization of police -- the ability of people with drug histories to get weed retailer licenses in colorado was just kind of a random road to go down

xp

sure

but otoh it's p obvious legal weed's gonna be huuuuuuuge business, so best to get these laws written right at the start, so that institutionalized racism isn't just automatically incorporated

I mean when legal weed passes in other states, they're going to turn to the states' who did it first for examples, this is how policy (both good and bad) proliferates

def

good point

my theory is that unless some horrible thing comes out of the woodwork to make clinton unelectable, a biden run would mostly be a belly-flop on his part. in theory he could split the "centrist" vote and put sanders w/in reach of the nomination, but more likely he just won't get much traction at all.

^^^

Biden's only constituencies are (a) the media (b) GOP operators who believe in Segretti-style ratfucking.

I heard some wag say that he's the party's insurance policy should something improbably horrible emerge from the FBI hearings, but if that's the case, he has all the time in the world.

i think there are filing deadlines coming up very soon, like first week of november. he can't really think some devastating revelation will come out of the sham hearings, but i suppose he could be waiting to see if hillary's popularity drops dramatically anyway, like if she just comes off really bad or something. it still seems ridiculously unlikely to me. he can't think he has a great shot, so he'd be entering a race only to sink like a stone... not really a dignified way to end your political career when you could just retire as a well-liked vice president.

seems totally pointless for him

if people dont like hillary because shes a wall street sellout why the fuck would they prefer someone who is WAY WORSE

I guess thats the theme of the entire election

(weeps)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/clinton-and-sanders-campaigns-neck-and-neck-on-diversity-hir?utm_term=.wlxaaAj51#.kdJeeljYo

i'm a little confused as to what the "emerging marijuana economy" even refers to.

― k3vin k., Monday, October 19, 2015 6:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they're basically implying (or trolling) the point that there are lots of middle-class to wealthy white kids in CO and on the West Coast not just smoking but legally making money off of pot while urban eastern and southern black kids get put in jail for same* without, as is typical, having much recognition of what various levels of government do let alone proposals for the federal executive. not that they're required to present a NPRM or anything, but the movement does tend a bit inchoate.

*never mind that lots of white drug users or especially runners get put in jail too, of course not to the same extent though query whether that would be true if more of those white users lived in areas with substantial violent or property crime. see also TroyGoode #dumbjambanfanlivesmatter

no

as is typical!

politics ain't benbbag

if people dont like hillary because shes a wall street sellout why the fuck would they prefer someone who is WAY WORSE

b-b-but he has a great tan!

without, as is typical, having much recognition of what various levels of government do let alone proposals for the federal executive.

Presidents have considerable political influence beyond the confines of the federal executive branch. They can be quite instrumental in setting the framework of a political debate. This seems so easy to grasp, I wonder how you could have missed it.

I thought the ...beyond the bully pulpit wasn't necessary to add, but I should have considered the willfulness that you in particular seem set upon of late. Fact is, though, that the bully pulpit is not in the main what they're looking for. And that the movement hasn't said much directly to the present holder of the office.

the bully pulpit is not in the main what they're looking for

In regard to the issue of black participation in the emerging marijuana market being disproportionately precluded by past use of drug laws against the black community in particular, what evidence do you have that BLM is looking for anything other than a clear buy-in by the candidates to their pov on this issue?

the question about marijuana legalization kind of contains its own explanation? the issue is that this new, legal economy is opening up in fits and starts, and if people with marijuana raps on their record are locked out of it, that will (a) be bullshit and (b) be particularly unfair to the black community for a myriad of reasons. Οὖτιc otm about getting the laws right early in the process.

you could also see it as a way of gauging the candidates' understanding of, and sympathy with, that aforementioned myriad... and yes maybe to give someone the opportunity to come out and say there needs to be an amnesty on pot crimes, with widespread cancellation of outstanding warrants and fines as well as jail time. that would have to play out state-by-state, but national politicians speaking up on it could move the conversation along a lot.

"they're basically implying (or trolling) the point that there are lots of middle-class to wealthy white kids in CO and on the West Coast not just smoking but legally making money off of pot while urban eastern and southern black kids get put in jail for same* without, as is typical, having much recognition of what various levels of government do let alone proposals for the federal executive. not that they're required to present a NPRM or anything, but the movement does tend a bit inchoate."

This is not at all what they are saying

xpost

Prop 47 passed in California last year, allowing some people convicted of felony possession to apply to change their sentences to misdemeanors. I thought there had been some effort by Jerry Brown to release a lot of the prisoners convicted of marijuana possession but I can't find anything now.

For me the most interesting part of the Black Lives Matter platform was their outright opposition to community policing. I understand that policing has historically been misused against black communities, especially in but not limited to the South. And I get that many times there may be other community actors better suited to resolve issues than the police. But I'm not sure I agree that community policing is largely limited to communities of color in practice, and I'm not really sure I entirely disagree with the concept of policing in principle, if it's done right.

Oh hey, you know that whole thing about CNN deleting the unscientific straw poll showing that online people thought Sanders won the debate? Total conspiracy theory nonsense.

lol

the webb dropping out press event is at 1pm, and he'll probably announce an independent bid.

i still have no clue what he is doing

@ggreenwald
WashPost on how relieved Canadians are that their "endless" election (11 weeks) is finally over --> massive envy

almost time to panic!

"I don't think Trump can withstand 10,000 points of smart negative in Iowa and New Hampshire," says one veteran Republican strategist who is not affiliated with any campaign. "It would force him to spend money. That's when this starts to get real for him." ("Points" refers to gross ratings points, a way of measuring TV ad buys; 10,000 points would be a really big buy, meaning the average viewer would see an anti-Trump ad many, many times.)

There is no central anti-Trump conspiracy. But one group that would like to play a leading role in taking him down is the Club for Growth. In September, the Club ran two ads against Trump in Iowa — 2,000 points — with one arguing that Trump is not a true conservative and the other hitting Trump for his support of the Supreme Court's Kelo decision on eminent domain.

"We primed the pump with our ads in Iowa," says Club president David McIntosh. "We did some polling afterward. The ads flipped Trump from first to second place among caucus-goers and put a dent in his approval rating."....

The triggers for the anti-Trump onslaught would likely be: 1) if next month arrives with Trump still in the lead, and 2) if Trump begins airing his own ads. "Once that starts, you'll see a lot of people saying we've waited long enough," notes McIntosh.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2574454

I can't see how trump wins iowa, mostly because it seems like some byzantine nonsense that his 'staff' wont be prepared to handle

then again maybe he'll surprise all of us!

I can't see how trump wins iowa, mostly because it seems like some byzantine nonsense that his 'staff' wont be prepared to handle

^^^

Initially I thought Trump's mouth would sink him, but now my bet is on his inability/unwillingness to navigate party's infrastructure, court "superdelegates" etc.

ie the non-democratic reasons