Rolling MENA 2014 (Middle East)

Four Russian cruise missiles fired at Syria from the Caspian Sea landed in Iran, unnamed US officials say.

Any of them land on a hospital?

Mr. Hypocrisy Nonsequitur everyone

did mr. hypocrisy nonsequitur bomb a hospital tho?

lol

"Did we bomb a hospital? Of course not. We bombed three."

http://www.newsweek.com/ngo-says-russian-airstrikes-hit-three-syrian-medical-facilities-two-days-380657

Iran and Russia have both denied it happened but idk if we will ever find out for sure.

Unlike certain other countries, Russia hasn't really been bombing other people for a long time and they're using new missiles that have never been tested in live environment before so it's not implausible some might have exploded in mid air, etc.

the choice content from that conference with the loathsome carter was the claim that involvement in the syrian civil war would lead to attacks in russia, which may or may not be true (dagestan and ingushetia are in a permanent low level war with the fsb anyway) yet would apply in the same measure to the usa

also worth noting:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/foreign-affairs-defense/syrias-second-front/in-recent-months-isis-targeted-hospitals-doctors-journalists/

Regardless, the US's hospital bombing in Afghanistan really has fuck-all to do with what strategies/outcomes/roles of foreign powers would be best in Syria, I mean it really is a non-sequitur.

Similarly with respect to whether Russia has accidentally or intentionally struck targets in Iran. This isn't about a moral scoreboard.

Don't tell me, tell my government and your government.

prof i took Foreign Policy in the Middle East with posted this on facebook today

Syria really isn't so complicated. ISIS is fighting unbelievers (by mainly killing Muslims), the Turks are bombing ISIS (but really bombing Kurds), the Russians are attacking ISIS (but actually attacking the anti-ISIS opposition), Hizbullah is confronting Israel (by killing Syrians), the Saudis are fighting extremism (by backing extremists), and the Syrian regime is bombing terrorists (by slaughtering civilians with barrel bombs).

ha otm but he does not explain what usa is doing

the US is selling weapons to everyone

I said I didn't think it was a third Intifada, but Koplow who is very smart disagrees.

Saw something that the US is going to put a hold on arming "rebels" in Syria. That's a positive development IMO

I am now wondering if a deal is in the works between US/Russia/Iran where we let Assad fight the opposition and then manage an exit for him down the road? Seems tricky though - who takes over if we let Assad crush all opposition, and what's in it for Assad?

a cushy dacha on the volga?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/12/the-new-world-disorder-comment-philip-gourevitch

I really hate to say it, but Putin OTM?

Assad is highly unlikely to be able to crush all opposition. Even if the US stopped funding rebel groups Qatar and Saudi won't. The idea might be that Russia's intervention and some concerted effort from the US could potentially force the most mainstream groups to cut their losses and agree to power sharing.

Assad may well be too toxic to maintain a key role in the long term but i think from Russia's perspective, the most important thing is the continuity of the state, even in a modified form, rather than all-out loyalty to the individual.

Speaking to a lot of Libyans this week, they're not convinced there will be anything stable coming out of the chaos over the next five to ten years.

I feel like in the end Obama turned out to have the same naïve faith in the idea that democratic values are somehow essential to the human condition as Bush, as though you could just clear the weeds and it would bloom. Either that or Obama and/or Bush had a plan much more elaborate and/or cynical than I can comprehend.

that hope is p seductive when the alternatives are all so shitty

Pootypoot obviously harbors no such illusions

Yeah I don't know man alive. Some conservative kid in my office sent me this the other day: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-10/competing-gas-pipelines-are-fueling-syrian-war-migrant-crisis

I could only read the title, before I had to close out of the window to preserve my workplace sanity.

hmm, I'll definitely read that and consider it, although I always take Zero Hedge with a grain of salt.

http://waxpoetics.com/music/mixtape/jannis-of-jakarta-recordshabibi-funk-drops-another-mixtape-of-north-african-funk-and-disco/

Jannis of Jakarta Records has been dropping heat lately. After every trip to North Africa and the Middle East, he puts together a new mixtape—this time with funk covers (James Brown!) from Egypt and disco from Algeria and Morocco. There’s a killer Tunisian tune that’s a nice mix of modern soul and poppy reggae. There’s even a cover of Free’s “All Right Now.”

30 killed at a peace march in Ankara:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/turkey-suicide-bomb-killed-in-ankara

PKK seems to have called a ceasefire ahead of the bombing and is obviously unlikely to have hit a rally in favour of de-escalating the military campaign so could be the first major ISIS attack in central Turkey.

Death toll now over 80.

so horrible
if it's isis this seems like significant shift/ new variant in m.o., no?

HDP blaming the deep state.

The Suruc attack was also a suicide bomber w/ car bomb, as this seems to be. Xp

ah yes

HDP blaming the deep state.

!

Zaman Editor-in-Chief Keneş arrested for ’insulting’ Erdoğan: http://www.todayszaman.com/national_live-todays-zaman-editor-in-chief-kenes-arrested-for-insulting-erdogan_401086.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrSV3Z9gTmM

^fascinating
vicissitudes, folds, uncanny echoes of history

“If the media turn silent, Turkey would be plunged into darkness. Turkey will not turn away from democracy. Turkey will never get dark. Turkey will never turn into an authoritarian regime and it will go forward towards democracy,” Bilici said.

things seem v dark in turkey rn

so no one’s taken credit for bombing yet?
god is it really possible turkish (deep) state could be responsible, or is that conspiratorial fantasy?
i've referenced 1955 istanbul pogrom/kristallnacht itt before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_pogrom), which was instigated by false flag bombing by turkish (deep) state
not distant history, would not be surprising for erdogan to take after menderes in this regard
yet unthinkable, yet not; don't know what to think

echoes of history
echoes & ironies

The key thing about the deep state is that everyone thinks it's working against them, including Erdogan. Working on the assumption that it exists, the derin devlet is generally thought to be secular and elitist, so doesn't exactly fit with Erdogan's populism and soft Islamism. It went virtually unnoticed in the west but a few years ago Erdogan started to remove key military figures from the army and navy in what was thought by many to be an attempt to weaken the power of the deep state. They may be statist and nationalist but idk if I buy the idea that there is collaboration here. The murder of 100 people in your capital weeks before an election hardly looks like an obvious vote winner in itself. If there was another military intervention in domestic politics, I don't think Erdogan would be leading it.

I'm struggling to imagine a secular elitist suicide bomber, but if they've sending arms to ISIS on the sly - http://www.globalresearch.ca/turkey-arrests-soldiers-over-interception-of-syria-bound-weapons-to-terrorists/5450969 - they might be able to ship a willing suicide bomber to ankara

if they've been sending

thanks for insight sharivari
was not acquainted with term "deep state" until tom d.'s reference yesterday; v interesting

The murder of 100 people in your capital weeks before an election hardly looks like an obvious vote winner in itself

true, tho to be devil’s advocate-- just devil's advocate-- such events can be used (politically, rhetorically) to promote need for unification under strong leader; & most of those killed were kurds
but your intuition here re erdogan seems otm
if deep state were responsible, wonder what its motive/ agenda wd be

or if it's non-existent phantasmatic projection that all the different political actors in turkey imagine/ use to their own ends ("The key thing about the deep state is that everyone thinks it's working against them, including Erdogan")
amazing

from ogmor's link

The Turkish authorities have sought to link the affair to US-based preacher Fethullah Gulen who President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accuses of running a parallel state through supporters in the judiciary and police with the aim of usurping him.

Supporters of Gulen, who have been hit by a wave of arrests in the past months, reject the allegations.

The controversy erupted on 19 January 2014, when Turkish forces stopped trucks bound for Syria suspected to have been loaded with weapons. But they found MIT personnel on board.

Foreign rights groups have expressed concern in recent months over the broad judicial campaign against groups in Turkish society deemed to be Gulen supporters.

Weapons intercepted

The government imposed a full-blown media blackout, including on social networks, and the investigation is being carried out in the utmost secrecy.

It is very easy to get lost down an Ergenekon wiki rabbit hole. There is virtually no doubt that senior Turkish military officers have an ongoing agreement to take power in the event of a national crisis (or strongly Islamist party being elected) but the idea that a single shadowy cabal controls the PKK, ISIS, the Revolutionary People's Front, etc, has a long history in Turkey and has always been short on evidence.

The idea that ISIS wants to derail the ceasefire that threatens to strengthen the Kurdish rebels in Syria seems a cleaner explanation.

Gulenism is another odd one, and one of the reasons Zaman should always be taken with a pinch of salt.

it's so weird that no one has claimed credit for this attack. what's the pt of a huge terror attack if you don't want it associated with either your political ideology or at the very least your opponent's?

If the objective was to get the Kurds / Turks blaming each other, it might not be so weird. ISIS also waited 24 hours to claim Suruc so they might still own up to this one.

84% with an 87% turnout!

If he can get the sanctions lifted and bring peace to Ukraine I see no reason he shouldn't be aiming for the full 100 next time.

Wrong thread ^

The reason I had both tabs open is that the FSB claims to have foiled a bomb plot in Moscow possibly linked to involvement in Syria.

http://news.sky.com/story/1567708/russia-foils-terrorist-attack-in-moscow