The Coddling Of The American Mind (Trigger Warning Article In The Atlantic...)

scott started the thread and if he wants to talk about his kids I am game

trigger warning: skot rambles, deal with it.

Can't speak for scott (or anybody) but I see a clear line from a proposition like:

"Being an educated person includes includes being exposed to different ideas, which you may find challenging and upsetting"

(some form of which is sometimes forwarded in the anti-trigger warning, "CODDLING GONE MAD" articles) to a proposition like:

"Being an educated person includes includes being exposed to different ideas, INCLUDING the idea that it's just plain decent to be considerate toward people who may need/want a trigger warning (or whatever other form of respectful consideration they may need/want)."

Neurodiversity and diversity-of-experience being among the kinds of diversity that help make the world interesting and are worth communicating about to kids.

(okay, i rambled, but the kid thing IS tangential to the atlantic thing. you could run the same article in psychology today with the headline: Are we raising our kids to be TOO sensitive? if there still is a psychology today magazine. haven't seen one in years.)

It's an app now. "Are we raising our kids to be TOO sensitive? Point your phone at your kid, and we'll tell you!"

Maybe the parent asking that question are too sensitive to the sensitivity of their kids.

there are a lot of parents where i live who don't want to let their kids walk around the main street here.

these people are so annoying

but let's take it to the judging other people's parenting thread if necessary...

There's a fine line imo between "are we raising our kids to be TOO sensitive?" and "suck it up, buttercup." In my day we were beaten regularly with barbed wire then sent off to work in the mill at age six, etc. etc.

Messages that valorize perseverance and suck-it-upitude, when twisted just a few notches further, can easily sound like victim-blaming. Parents often have to work both sides of that street: you want to foster resilience, but you also want to acknowledge and appreciate sensitivity.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/481f8458-269b-4fbe-8bef-629261ebc681.jpeg

AND WE LIKED IT

in our house we slept ten to a bed!

you had a bed!?

(a joke i think i originally heard on All In The Family when i was a kid...)

ftr the "creepy liberalism" of that other thread's title is the kind of liberalism that's disdainful of trigger warnings

Yes, it's good training for the soul-crushing boredom they will experience in post-collegiate life.

― forbidden fruitarian (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, October 8, 2015 11:18 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is how i excuse myself whenever i give a boring lecture.

fwiw i think a big problem is that the "conversation" around trigger warnings is often framed in reference to the most obviously egregious misuses of that concept -- and people mistakenly assume those are representative. the key word is "warning"--ideally, the concept doesn't expressly forbid the broaching of certain topics or themes but merely suggests that people should be given some kind of notification in advance.

i think that, in a lot of ways, this is good common-sense practice. without ever having heard the phrase "trigger warning," when i started teaching and was about to raise a sensitive subject or show a film clip that was unusually violent or upsetting in some way, i'd let people know.

however it gives me pause when this sort of thing becomes institutionalized, not least because the nature of many higher-ed administrations is to aggressively expand the scope of any and every thing that they worry might upset students (and by extension, their parents). that /does/ have a lot to do with some phenomena that seem to me to growing and which might be encompassed by the word "coddling." students at my (big state) university are offered an ever-increasing number of amenities that would have been rare when i was in school... and would have been unthinkable when my mom was in school. these include a lot of reasonable accomodations and services, and a lot of stuff that is... a little less so. there's actually kind of an "arms race" among colleges in terms of offering services and amenities to students, which necessarily inflates tuition rates. it's in that context that the concept and practice of "trigger warnings" can suffer institutional abuse. but at heart it's not a bad idea at all, so long as it isn't construed to exclude discussion of certain subjects.

The only decent piece I've seen Freddie deBoer write in recent months warns college students not to seek redress with administrators; this empowers the people who already have too much power.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/magazine/why-we-should-fear-university-inc.html

I'll reiterate that I went to two Scottish Universities (one very conservative) in the 90s, for English and then Philosophy, and we absolutely got heads up before certain content. For example, we were told that Beloved involved a whole lot of unpleasant stuff, and we were told that we would be discussing abortion. It had no effect on my freedom of speech.

ok, short-ish inadequate responses here because i can't keep up with rolling clusterfucks like i could when i was a kid, and i'll try to tone down the hostility as much as i can (macro-aggression is way more my scene; micro-aggression sounds like something you do on your cell phone):

if we're going to have the discussion on which side is the bigger asshole, i claim victory and retreat. i own my asshole nature.

"i react negatively even though the stuff they're demanding (mainly tolerance and respect) is quite reasonable

how on earth is this anyone's problem but yours though? maybe you're not saying it is, but don't you see why people would be impatient with that kind of attitude? why do old people always feel so entitled to a "get off my lawn" attitude?

― lex pretend, Thursday, October 8, 2015 8:51 AM (5 hours ago)"

it's a problem because old white male assholes more or less like me (though not, necessarily, me personally, hell, i don't even have a lawn) run this world. look, my capacity for personal insight is somewhat limited. i don't know why people like me are how we are. i can work to overcome my instinctive reactions, but i'm always going to have those instinctive reactions, humans are always going to make gut decisions based on instinct rather than on logic and reason. i'd love it if we lived in a just world, despite the fact that the world's blatant injustice redounds to my benefit most of the time, but fuck if i know how to get from here to there.

actually if i had a lawn i think i would probably let kids step on it. because my grandfather did have a lawn, and he would let the kids on it and none of the other people on the block did, and as a result he had nothing but dirt for most of his life. on the other hand maybe i'm not as good a person as my grandfather was. not really sure.

andrew, i'm sorry i am not current on the latest memes, but reading about memes gives me sciatica. i know i can google anything i want and get a distorted and inaccurate view of what the internet thinks it is along with some pictures of the dos equis guy.

as for if the youth had power, yes, people with power can demand stuff of me, and then i will pretend to comply to their face and then spend the rest of my time trying to sabotage whatever it was they demanded i do. because that's apparently what it means to be a professional adult. i just don't think demands are an effective form of communication.

branwell, i will do my best to take your congratulations as a compliment. i'm honored that you have concluded that i am the not-crazy sort of asshole. i'm not sure i agree with your conclusion, mind you, either the assumption that nobody and nothing is repeatedly hitting me in the face or the assumption that i am somehow capable of ignoring it and blissfully soaring over it all with zen aplomb.

i don't get to choose how i feel, but i do have some very small level of control over what i do about it. after spending some years yelling at people to quit hitting me in the face and getting, largely, a reaction of "wtf are you talking about, i wasn't hitting you in the face", i gave up on doing that.

sorry for going all hippie and shit, but i just want us to be able to talk to each other, even though i'm an asshole and you have ptsd or whatever. and what i see on the internet these days is a pretty profound lack of serious communication. if you want me to apologize for being an asshole, i'll gladly do it, but you know, i'm still going to be an asshole afterwards.

it's not about you, dude, go read the bottle opener thread or something

look, my capacity for personal insight is somewhat limited

then stfu or see a therapist who can help you with this

it's a problem because old white male assholes more or less like me (though not, necessarily, me personally, hell, i don't even have a lawn) run this world. look, my capacity for personal insight is somewhat limited. i don't know why people like me are how we are. i can work to overcome my instinctive reactions, but i'm always going to have those instinctive reactions

this is why ppl say things like #killallwhitemen

at the very least, their gut instinct and their supposed inability to change it can go fuck itself

btw you can change gut reactions, it just takes a while

"it's a problem because old white male assholes more or less like me (though not, necessarily, me personally, hell, i don't even have a lawn) run this world."

http://www.dementia13.net/film/features/bios/images/Wilford%20Brimley.jpg

mushorancy

btw you can change gut reactions, it just takes a while

just have to improve your microflora! (these are plants on your cell phone.)

k, thx for the death threats guys, lates

a grad level philosophy seminar i took screened the film "antichrist" and during the genital mutilation scene one of my classmates had a seizure

i think we were trigger warned too but it wasnt called that then

afaik stress doesn't really trigger seizures but I am not a neurologist

im going to go ahead and guess, not being a neurologist either, that stress can contribute to seizures in some people

Maybe it was a coincidence then. Afterward she told me she had had epilepsy as a child but this was the first recurrence in many years

high-blood pressure/dehydration/sleep deprivation can trigger seizures but again these are pretty different extenuating factors - it's not like people see something that shocks them and have a seizure, that isn't really how they work afaik (full disclosure I am only speaking from personal experience and having dealt with family members w seizure disorders for 20+ years)

http://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/non-epileptic-seizures#.VhbzeFL3bCQ

Maybe she had this. Anyway, i dont think ppl should be made to watch shit like antichrist. Less visceral stuff like ovid (which has been trigger warned iirc) is harder for me to wrap my head around.

The notion that ppl have the right to live in their own bubble free of emotional distress from the social environment seems very idealistic and american and I like it for this reason. Look at most highly demanding people and you'll find an idealistic, even progressive core to their ridiculous demands - an expectation that life should be better

not that trigger warnings are ridiculous in principle or even in practice, really. but the ridiculous examples are worth looking at too bc they give us some insight into the ideology behind the trend imo

christ, i think a trigger warning would be warranted for a book in which the stuff that happens in antichrist happens, let alone a movie where you see it happening in close-up

weird thing to me about "trigger warnings" as a supposed new thing is that growing up in britain you'd always get a little voiceover to the effect of "some viewers might find this programme upsetting" prior to any tv programme with violence/sexual violence in it, and that just seems common sense/common courtesy and not like a big deal or threat to free speech to me?

oh theyd also say why you might find it disturbing ie "this programme contains scenes of x or y"

American tv has a ratings system for that

viewer discretion advised

the following lecture is approved for appropriate audiences

the thing that amazes me about ppl saying things like "how can kids learn if they're not exposed to difficult subjects" w/r/t trigger/content warnings in academia is that those warnings are designed for students who have actual firsthand experiences of the "difficult subjects" in question like... they've been exposed

x-post now but...

The one Urgent and Key thing that came out of years of debates about warnings is that "this program may have content that some viewers find upsetting" does not cover it. Be more specific about *types* of content because people are different and triggers/concerns are different!

This is something which came up a lot in my childhood, in that I was raised by people who were a) European not American and b) hippies and when I was in single digits they had no problem with me being taken to films that were full of naked people or people having sex, but did not want their kids exposed to massive episodes of violence, especially gun violence. And when we moved to America, the rating system was completely different, and they would take me to a PG film which would feature one guy blowing another guy's head off, OK, just fine; but one picture of a guy's dangling dick and there was an X slapped on the film.

the thing that amazes me about ppl saying things like "how can kids learn if they're not exposed to difficult subjects" w/r/t trigger/content warnings in academia is that those warnings are designed for students who have actual firsthand experiences of the "difficult subjects" in question like... they've been exposed

― 1staethyr, Friday, October 9, 2015 7:16 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

coming from a slightly different headspace than the atlantic article, for anyone who still has the energy. Most of the shares on facebook quote the final paragraph, but it really is the punchline and it's maybe best when read in context

http://raneutill.com/how-trigger-warnings-broke-my-back/

There is a recent article titled, The Coddling of the American Mind, that looks in depth at this phenomenon, the call for safe spaces and trigger warnings. The article’s tone could be read as pretty condescending to people who are survivors of trauma, but I do think it raises a number of super important points. Similarly, the work of Laura Lipnis on trigger warnings is illuminating, but in an unfortunate and often typical academic fashion, it can be snobbish and sometimes downright mean (Jack Halberstam is also in this camp). And here lies the problem. Taking a tone like that just pisses students off even more. I’m not saying that if we said these things nicely, students would suddenly get it, they won’t. I am living proof of that. Im just pointing out the fact that putting on an academic face of elite speak isn’t helping either. Maybe pointing out the horrifying political stance these students are making will help?

hey that's actually an article critical of this phenomenon that doesn't make me roll my eyes and makes me sympathetic to the author

I feel like a goddamn college professor should be a better writer than high-school graduate me, but her point is solid.

that's kind of what I assumed was going on behind a lot of this, "What's the big deal? It's just about respect" stuff

I think TWs are necessary if you're teaching an intro class required by students from all kinds of majors, but at some point, when you've decided to go into the humanities, you're going to have to deal with art/ideas that doesn't comfort you/reflect your ideals.

Right, and no-one is saying you shouldn't.

I feel like a goddamn college professor should be a better writer than high-school graduate me,

I should introduce you to recently published academic writing