Should Pope Francis sell the family jewels?

jesus, don't ask bono, we'll be here all day.

it wasn't just that they were trying to keep people subservient and ignorant, it was that they knew going around following the bible above all else could lead to some pretty terrible stuff.

Following the Bible above all else could lead to some amazing stuff too like pacifism, egalitarianism, social reform, etc. In medieval times nonconformist sects, pacifists, anarchists, and radical Christians like The Diggers, the Flagellants, the Anabaptists, and the long history of peasant revolts, all found inspiration in the book and were seen as a threat. Social reform and egalitarianism were probably terrible things to the people in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts

Ball was imprisoned in Maidstone, Kent, at the time of the 1381 Revolt. What is recorded of his adult life comes from hostile sources emanating from the established religious and political social order. He is said to have gained considerable fame as a roving preacher—a "hedge priest" without a parish or any link to the established order—by expounding the doctrines of John Wycliffe, and especially by his insistence on social equality. He delivered radical sermons in many places, including: Ashen, Billericay, Bocking, Braintree, Cressing Temple, Dedham, Coggeshall, Fobbing, Goldhanger, Great Baddow, Little Henny, Stisted and Waltham.

His utterances brought him into conflict with Simon of Sudbury, Archbishop of Canterbury, and he was thrown in prison on several occasions. He also appears to have been excommunicated; owing to which, in 1366 it was forbidden for anyone to hear him preach. These measures, however, did not moderate his opinions, nor diminish his popularity. He took to speaking to parishioners in churchyards after the official services in English, the "common tongue", not the Latin of the clergy, a radical political move. Ball was "using the bible against the church", very threatening to the status quo.

Shortly after the Peasants' Revolt began, Ball was released by the Kentish rebels from his prison.[3] He preached to them at Blackheath (the revolting peasants' rendezvous to the south of Greenwich) in an open-air sermon that included the following:

When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bond, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty.

When the rebels had dispersed, Ball was taken prisoner at Coventry, given a trial in which, unlike most, he was permitted to speak. He was hanged, drawn and quartered at St Albans in the presence of King Richard II on 15 July 1381. His head was displayed stuck on a pike on London Bridge, and the quarters of his body were displayed at four different towns.[2] Ball, who was called by Froissart "the mad priest of Kent," seems to have possessed the gift of rhyme. He voiced the feelings of a section of the discontented lower orders of society at that time,[3] who chafed at villeinage and the lords' rights of unpaid labour, or corvée.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ball_(priest)

Οὖτις there's no big surprise really; the vast majority of eastern orthodox people are in russia, former soviet states and surrounding bits of europe and the middle east, but that's a lot of people. there are considerably more protestants than orthodox christians as well, but goole was specifically talking about latin christianity

god, those peasants are revolting!

i've been starting to really dig into eastern orthodoxy lately, and it has some pretty striking historical differences from roman catholicism. eastern orthodoxy didn't get thomas aquinas and scholasticism in about the 12th century like the western church did, so has less of an intellectual bent and more of a mystical bent. a guy like rasputin, for instance, simply could not have come out of the roman catholic church. one of the long-term consequences seems to be that the orthodox church in russia was and is subservient to the state in a way that would be unthinkable in the western tradition, where religious beliefs regularly surfaced as a challenge to temporal authority. dostoevsky's religion, for instance, manifested itself as obeisance to the state in a way that probably wouldn't happen in western europe. my understanding is still rather primitive and these are tentative thoughts.

as for the radical revolts, sure, they led to some good stuff, but most of the reformers, particularly in the first protestant era, had far from unblemished records. luther's revolution got out of hand rapidly and it didn't take long for him to start burning people like jan hus at the stake for advocating freedom of religion. there's also the sad, bizarre story of john lydon and the anabaptist muenster rebellion of 1534. though there have been plenty of organized persecutions against oppressed peoples, most pogroms tend to be populist undertakings.

lotta splainin itt

https://33.media.tumblr.com/237659ad0c7c43ffdb2b2bca5d3bad86/tumblr_nvm25juWtP1rezhn9o1_400.gif

Dale Martin's Yale course (on iTunes U too I think) is (afaict) a v good intro to the historical situation of each of the gospels & the NT epistles - Martin's engaging, good at taking you through the developing relationship between judaism & its factions, the roman (+ ~hellenic) political-cultural forces, and this odd sect that's coming through.

early modern pedantry: diggers and anabaptists aren't medieval.

good maron alternative. ty

i don't really care about this general debate but since we're talking about early christian antisemitism it bothers me that 'good samaritan' as a term for a helpful bystander is so ubiquitous since the story it comes from is pretty obviously intended to defame contemporaneous cohanim + levites at the expense of a splinter heresy

― Mordy, Friday, October 2, 2015 4:03 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

?? pretty obviously meant to tell you that elites are often bad and weirdos and exiles can be good

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

interpretations differ across christian history but the basic understanding of "don't pay much attn to existing social hierarchies, look at what people do" is right there p much

if there's one thing i've learned from two millennia of christianity it's that obvious interpretations of scripture aren't.

the story means many things but one of those things is undeniably a broadside against jewish religious life [in the second temple era]. the subtext is that you'd expect men of holy castes like the kahunnah or a levite to be charitable but they are too wrapped up in their dogma + laws + stringencies. they aren't just members of a social hierarchy - they were the priests of the second temple. i think it needs to be read in the context of replacement theology in general.

the most reactionary Red Beanies declare war on Il Papa

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a40282/pope-francis-fight-catholic-soul/

http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/opposition-pope-francis-comes-out-closet

Pope Francis denounces transgender people as ‘annihilation of man’

Well, fuck. Alright, Frankie, fuck you. You had me going for a while.

that gif of the pope doing the tablecloth trick tho

From the google translation of the q&a:

There is a whole reform, which should be taken at the global level, with respect to this commitment, acceptance of immigrants. But it is a matter of relative: the absolute heart is open to receive. That is absolute! With prayers, intercession to do what I can. The relative is the way I can do this: not everyone can do it in the same way. But the problem is global! Exploitation of creation and exploitation of people. We celebrate the event of the destruction of man as the image of God.

And I would like to conclude this aspect, because it conceals it behind him ideologies. In Europe, in America, in Latin America, in Africa, in some Asian countries there is a real ideological colonization. One of them - I say this clearly from the "name" - is gender! Today, children in school - just kids! - Taught in school: that everyone can choose their gender. And why do they teach? Since textbooks impose those individuals and institutions that give money. This is the ideological colonization, supported also by the very influential countries. And it's terrible. When I talked with Pope Benedict, who is doing well and has a bright idea, he told me: "Your Holiness, this era of sin against God the Creator." That's clever! God created man and woman; God created the world in such a concrete way, and we do the opposite. God has given us the state of the "original", we made it culture; and then from this culture we do things that lead us to the "original". The words spoken by Benedict XVI should prompt us to think: "This is the era of sin against God the Creator." This reflection will help us.

Cant believe the pope isnt ilx tho

A bit of reformist lip service on twitter and a shit album seemed to give some people the impression that he isn't the pope.

Yeah!

omg this story.

what what?

in the butt

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/05/vatican-police-discover-drug-fueled-gay-orgy-in-apartment-of-cardinal-who-advises-pope-francis/

I love how they have picked the most Up The Arse corner pictures of Pope Francis for this piece!

Cops raided the apartment in late June after neighbors voiced concern about multiple people acting strangely while streaming in and out of the residence, the newspaper reported Wednesday.

Once police were inside the apartment, they said they found multiple men engaged in rampant drug use and homosexual activity.

They then arrested the priest — an aide to one of Pope Francis’ key advisers — after taking him to a clinic to detox from the drugs he’d ingested.

The unnamed aide is now on a spiritual retreat in a convent in Italy, the paper said.

http://nypost.com/2017/07/05/vatican-cops-bust-drug-fueled-gay-orgy-at-cardinals-apartment/

a spiritual retreat with booze and boyz

vatican chemsex is my new band name

Haha! May I steal that?

I mean not as a band name just a status update.

steal away

Ta

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/europe/vatican-us-catholic-conservatives.html

francis is pretty cool

inevitable casting, no?

Fernando Meirelles (City of God) will “direct an untitled film centered on the relationship between Pope Benedict and Pope Francis” for Netflix. “Benedict will be played by Anthony Hopkins and Francis will be played by Jonathan Pryce.”

Hannibal Lecter good choice for the Rottweiler, too

yay catholic fanfic

single-layer 'crowds' along most of the route today afaict

didn't stop rte livecasting it the entire day

this cunt can only dream of the crowds saint John Paul II could get, no twitter in them days but 8m ppl at York racecourse in '82!

his altar technique couldn't be fucked with!

nobody had the heart to tell him the 80k at croker were only there for daniel

this cunt can only dream of the crowds saint John Paul II could get, no twitter in them days but 8m ppl at York racecourse in '82!

There's not 8 million Catholics in England, let alone York Racecourse.

Are there even 8 million Englanders?

lol

John Paul II was pure evil, though. He was the Reagan of the modern papacy, standing by as hundreds of thousands of people died of AIDS. Francis is at least marginally better

sorry I meant to say 8 million homemade Welcome Pope JP II flags, a rumour was spreading around at the the time for every extra flag you brought to the gig, you get a year in purgatory knocked off .

It's hilarious how few left footers there are in England - it must be one of the Proddiest countries on Earth, and that's despite Manchester and Liverpool.

Francis is at least marginally better

it's quite a bit more than marginal.

Indeed, and not a Nazi too, which is always a bonus.

"it's quite a bit more than marginal."

yes agree