AGING PARENTS

My grandmother almost fell prey to a scam disguised as a Publisher's Clearinghouse award (a letter basically saying we want to give you the award but we need some banking info from you first so please call this number and provide it), despite many such conversations. The worst was she tried to hide it from my parents because she was afraid they would say it was a scam and not let her go through with it! Actually no the worst was she confessed the whole thing to my aunt, who is a smart woman with multiple degrees and a background in science, and who also kept it from my parents because my grandmother asked her to. I can't remember how the truth came out but she was spared any losses and we reported the situation to the AG.

Anyway, I feel you about the frustration of this. Also the serious anger at people who take advantage of old folks.

mine are at or nearing Medicare age and I'm weary being their son. I've been bailing them out financially since I was 20 years old, despite them being able bodied and both employed mostly the entire time. Short story is they're irresponsible with money, live above their means, and are entitled to the point where they buy things because they "deserve" them and say they'll figure it out later. they also managed to ruin my brother's credit for similar reasons, after which he rightfully cut them off.

they just moved back and of course are already being a huge drain on us. my dad had to live with us temporarily for 2.5 months, in which they lived rent-free (as my mom stayed with a friend), were both working, with my dad getting social security on top of that, and still have no money. he filed bankruptcy 7 years ago and then somehow amassed new, crippling debt.

apparently the move sucked them dry and they want to borrow again, as if someone forced them to move here. we've had the talk before of how I can't keep doing this, but naturally when the alternative is my mom not having food I always cave (I blame my father for most of this).

by the time I actually have to legitimately take care of them....I have no idea how I'm going to have the energy to do it.

it sucks because it makes me resent them and then I feel guilty for THAT.

my grandparents got a call from someone claiming to be their granddaughter, saying she was in jail and needed them to send money to bail her out. Thank god they called my parents first, we figured out it was a scam pretty quick (just had to, uh, call my cousin and confirm that she was indeed not in jail). and apparently my other grandparents had the same scam attempted on them a few years back, but in this case it was someone claiming to be ME calling them up asking for money!

lol i remember now that my mom actually called the scammers back and told them off. that was pretty awesome.

my mom just gave me a coupon for $1 off yogurt. she wants me to mail it back to her if i don't use it

That's like Peak Mom right there.

no matter how much it needs to happen, or how right I know I am, it never feels good telling my 62 year old mother, who is fragile and loves with her whole heart, that her and my dad are stressing me out with their insane financial dependence on me for the last fifteen years.

but I finally had to do it tonight, as I'd bottled it up too long. it was easier for me to dish the shit to my father, who has somewhat poisoned our relationship by treating me like a bank, but I feel like equal parts relieved and equal parts shit now that I've had to tell them they're cut off and I need some air.

part of it's also me seeing them and doubly wanting to make sure I don't wind up that way. if I'm that poorly off at retirement age, there will be a carbon monoxide funeral in my future.

oh well...I think deep down I keep seeing the passage of time and worrying about them getting older and frail and that's why I've held back so long.

Has anyone heard of a disease or allergy or otherwise where the eyes are constantly swollen and teary and the salt eats away at the corneas? This is some bad stuff and folks are having real trouble finding anyone that knows how to treat it or what it is really. They just got back from another appointment and the lab had somehow forgotten to do some bloodwork. They've been seeing people since June.

They said something about the immune system being responsible, that it is attacking the eyes. It is scary stuff he's laying down all day w a cloth over his eyes doing drops every 1hr. Nobody they've seen has any clue.

Sjogren's syndrome? I think that's either where you stop producing tears or the tears produced are not H2O enough?

No this is constant tears.

I will ask them about that tho, thanks.

Sjogrens is not enough tears -- my mother-in-law has it. That sounds scary as hell, Adam.

could it be this?

http://care.american-rhinologic.org/epiphora

Maybe. I'll see them tomorrow and maybe find out more.

good luck! it sounds awful, hope you get some answers/cure soon

not my aging parent but christ it is fucking horrible the way some companies go hard after elderly people. my wife's dad is 86 and he gets calls all day long from people claiming he owes money to the IRS, people telling him there's a virus on his computer and they need access to it, he gets mail from Publisher's Clearing House all the time, or other similar companies where he's won like 2 million bucks* (*just buy this set of tools and you'll be in line for the prize, you might be the lucky one!)

and now I just got off the phone with some fucking skin care company that corralled him into a trial membership for the low low price of $10 for two samples of skin cream, with monthly charges of $200 for both for the subsequent 12 months (or until he stops membership.)

i acted old on the phone, just in case. i think i did a pretty good job and jeez if you think trying to cancel cable is bad, try to cancel this shit. they at first said i couldn't cancel because i was still in the trial period, then they said they would lower the cost by 50%, then finally said i would just have to pay like $50 for the creams i already had and i doddered about and finally told them "ok."

fucking monsters, all of them. he's already throwing $5k a month at long term care for my wife's mom (bc of alzheimer's, bc of course insurance won't cover it.)

I get so upset about this ^^^^ kinda thing. I'm so glad that your FIL has ppl looking out for him to mitigate this stuff but so upset for all of the vulnerable people (not just elders) out there who are very systematically preyed upon and have no safety net if there isn't an attentive and involved loved one. Which, with the most vulnerable, there is often not.

I mentioned it upthread, but if your state has a consumer protection office, report this shit. I have no doubt it's one of those things that is getting gutted in many places, but it's often part of a state's attorney general's office and does advocacy for people like your father in law. Giving them a heads-up about new phone scams is useful.

Bump because I'm probably going to be visiting this thread a lot. My 76-year-old mother drives reasonably well and seems perfectly coherent if you talk to her, but cannot take care of the house--imagine an East Coast center-hall colonial in much the same condition as the pictures above.

Another forum recommended that I talk to the county Adult Protective Services office and seek out a lawyer to talk power of attorney. Does anyone here have any advice on this?

A related issue: my Aunt Donna (sister of my late father) has been living alone. Three weeks ago she collapsed with some sort of seizure. The good news is that she has a circle of friends who found her soon after said collapse and rushed her to the hospital. The doctors still haven't made a diagnosis, but she's made enough of a recovery to call my mother yesterday.

Apparently my aunt's circle of friends has dealt enough with these matters to have power of attorney and related documents prepared in advance. I wish my mother had a circle of friends like that (she has a few long-distance friends; I don't think she has any face-to-face friends). I wish I had a circle of friends like that.

It might be difficult, but I'd suggest talking this over with your mother and persuading her to see a lawyer with you to prepare a will, power of attorney, and related healthcare documents. She might not agree immediately, but give her some time to think about it, keep bringing it up, and perhaps get other family members to encourage her. It's to her benefit as well as yours for her to do this while she can consider and choose the options that work best for her. Once that paperwork is done, it's one less thing for everyone to worry about.

If she's still driving safely and is rational but can't take care of her house any more, a simple option might be hiring someone to come in and do some cleaning. Everyone ages differently and loses competencies at different rates. A chaotic house doesn't necessarily mean that she can't still function independently, but it does signal she's starting to need more help and ought to observed closely in case her capacity declines in other areas (for example, not eating properly, not keeping track of medications, or forgetting or over-paying bills).

My father is 82 and last year his Alzheimer's advanced to the point where he had to move into a memory care facility. By then I was already taking care of his banking, taxes, etc. If I hadn't had power of attorney it would have been much harder to do everything that was needed for his care. According to a lawyer I met with, the alternative to his having granted me power of attorney while he was competent would have been for me to apply for a conservatorship or guardianship, which could have taken months at a time when major decisions needed to be made in a hurry.

It's strange to look back over the last 10 years and realize how completely my relationship with my father changed during that time. I had to set aside some lingering hard feelings and become the more responsible and care-giving person in our relationship. My father also had to acknowledge that his memory problems were severe and that he needed my support. Both of us had to overcome lifelong patterns of fighting with and then withdrawing from each other and instead talk much more openly than we ever had. I'm glad I took the initiative and that we got together on what to do before it was too late.

I went to my mother's house today, where I broached the subject of moving in the near future and letting my sister and I deal with the house. She didn't agree right there, but I think she was listening. I also tried talking about her eating habits (the kitchen can only be described as a "disaster area"), but she got belligerent.

One piece of good news: my mother had been talking about finding an attorney to take my late father's name off the house title. More recently she would mention maybe having a will done at the same time. I volunteered to find a lawyer and make an appointment, and when she agreed, she mentioned "power of attorney" without being prompted. It's possible that Aunt Donna's recent health issues have made it clear that it's better to prepare these things in advance, rather than scramble around after something has happened.

AGING PARENTS are a big chunk of my life both personal (father with Alzheimer's) and professional (hospice social worker). Can't echo more strongly what Brad C. and others have said about getting living will (including naming medical POA) and financial POA.

J.lu I've had to make DC APS reports on multiple occasions; ime if the person in question has decision-making capacity, APS won't do boo even if the decisions the person is making are clearly not in their best interest. And the DC guardianship process is a cluster easily avoided with medical/financial POA (these don't have to be the same person, lots of families I work with divvy it up). Those documents and living wills can be done without an attorney, let me know if you'd like me to point you to forms available online. Only the financial POA requires notarization (and I'm a notary so holler if you need one!).

Yes please point to online help! My parents have 0 documents prepared and I'm an only child. Their reason for not having anything prepared is that everything will fall to me regardless :-/

http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289

Another alternative is Five Wishes, a very plain-language, legalese-free advance directive that is recognized in 40+ states. There is a small cost and it is a little emo for my own personal taste, but it is very approachable and actually a lot more comprehensive than a lot of the state versions. https://www.agingwithdignity.org/

For basic financial POA documents, I just google Durable Power of Attorney + name of the state and find a .gov link. Don't pay money!

Some people use legalzoom or similar online service for after-you're-dead wills, but unless you have a very straightforward situation (which maybe your parents do), a trust and estate lawyer is a good idea. Even if you are an only child, their estate will have to go through probate if they die intestate! AVOID!

^^ everything that quincie said

ime if the person in question has decision-making capacity, APS won't do boo even if the decisions the person is making are clearly not in their best interest.

currently we are trying to convince my live-in 85-yr old FIL that it is not in his best interest to move back to New York with no support network or plan, originally he was gonna sell the (empty) house but he has gotten cold feet basically so we are in a holding pattern. hopefully he will realize that he can't fend for himself, but if he insists on going I think we can make sure he gets an apartment ahead of time...

and yeah, fortunately my wife has all that POA stuff dialed in, got that done a few years back and boy are we glad.

Thanks for the info quincie. What does intestate mean? I'm in total denial about my aging parents.

Idk want "go through probate" means either but I can tell it's something to be avoided & has to do with court.

Another thing about POA, durable POA for healthcare, etc. -- be sure you keep the originals somewhere safe and secure. I spent about two years searching for the certified original copy of my father's POA; before that I had only photocopies, which probably wouldn't have been accepted if I had tried to make changes to his financial accounts or to sell his real estate.

Knowing where important documents are is especially important if your AGING PARENTS have memory problems because eventually they will not remember which very safe place they put them in.

xp "Intestate" is the condition of not having a valid Last Will and Testament. If you die intestate, the disposition of your property is determined by state law and the judgment of the probate court rather than by the terms of your will. I don't think probate can be avoided for most people's estates. Having a will makes that process a lot smoother. Also see above about certified original copies. My only copy of my father's will is a photocopy, which might or might not be accepted at probate. The terms of his will are so simplistic that the outcome would be much the same either way, but for many families it could make a big difference.

I don't know much about how the probate process works, so I'd appreciate more info about this too.

Hi Quincie,

My mother is in Rockville, so I'd be dealing with the Montgomery County APS--do you know how responsive, effective, etc. they are?

A couple of years ago I gave my mother a copy of Five Wishes. Earlier today I found it at the house (uncompleted and insect-stained). Drafting the will and POA based on online templates is probably the best way to start. However, since my mother WANTS to talk to a lawyer about the house title, and seems to be receptive to preparing a POA and a will, I'd like a lawyer to look at the documents. A little preliminary work on Yelp identified two possible firms; does anyone have any better ideas for finding a lawyer?

I now work in MoCo, actually! I have not yet had any interaction with MoCo APS, but according to colleagues it's much the same story: person has capacity? Best of luck to you! The MoCo Office of Aging and Disability may be more helpful, but probably not by much.

Again via colleagues I've been given names of two trust&estate attys who seem to be well-liked; I'll e-mail those to you when I'm back in the office.

Idea: everyone on ILX can ship their AGING PARENTS and a buttload of money to me and I'll take care of everything!

I'm starting to lowkey freak out about the fact that I live in another country from my (somewhat rapidly) aging parents. Like How TF am I going to deal w this.

urgh - sorry J. Lu for the situation you're in - this is all terribly familiar.
These last 7 years, I've considered most of the options upthread but my mother has been very hostile and belligerent to any suggestion that she may not be 100% lucid. It is basically impossible to talk about these things with her, she will just clam up and get upset. My solution has been to bring in more and more house-help under somewhat false pretenses - ie a "cleaning lady" coming in every day for a couple of hours. It costs us a fortune but the peace of mind it's brought me in the last couple of years is, as they say, priceless.

Tracer I know the feeling. My brother still lives in the usa & even in the same city as them so he'll shoulder the physical burden at least.

It's possible for me to bring them here too if things get very bad.

I can't imagine that Tracer. Every time I've had the chance to live in another country I've avoided it because of the distance it would put between my parents and me. How long have you lived overseas now?

Every so often I see articles talking about (U.S.) citizens who retire in a country outside the U.S., because of cheaper costs of living. I hope to god for the sake of these retirees' next of kin that the retirees prepared their wills and powers of attorney BEFORE the move. Imagine trying to support an aging parent not just over a distance, but with language barriers and possibly a drastically different legal system to complicate things.

(Since the 2016 election, I've thought vaguely about emigrating to Germany. It wouldn't have been imminent anyways, but it sure won't be happening any time soon.)

In the meantime, I've downloaded templates for a will and a power of attorney, and I just spoke to my mother about drafting these documents before we go to a lawyer. She sounded reluctant but resigned.

I'm so mad at my sister right now. When we first decided we couldn't let Mom go on in her current way any longer, my sister suggested letting her stay temporarily to the currently vacant condo she owns. So when yesterday I suggested moving Mom there as a halfway house to getting her to move to Leisure World, my sister balked. Her explanation was that it would disrupt Mom's "momentum" towards moving to Leisure World.

I do not doubt that my sister is as busy with work as she says. But Mom seems alarmingly happy to live in a squalid house, spending her days watching TV and petting the cats, and buying more clothes and groceries (which tend to get lost in the clutter). If my mother has any momentum when I'm not around and trying to coax her into doing something, I see no sign of it.

I've still got my mother's cats, and have said that I really don't want to return them until the situation is "resolved." I love cats, but 1) one of them has occasionally pooped on the floor, no matter how frequently I clean the litter box, and 2) my hands and wrists are itching and irritated in a way that make me afraid I'm allergic to cats.

So my mother has had lung cancer for the past 4 ish years but she stopped treating it about two years ago and is definitely in rapid decline. She also has some form of undiagnosed (my dad doesn't see the point in taking her to see someone for that) dementia which is heartbreaking. My father won't even consider a visiting nurse even though he's at the point of pretty much doing literally everything for her because he thinks having people coming in to help would be betraying her somehow. ?! While I'm not in another country I am still quite far away (they're in FL and I'm in MA) and I'm an only child. Recently her doctor said that he can't say if it'll be next week or in six months but she'd definitely dying. That might be the weirdest part - that limbo. I'm going down there at the end of the month for a couple days and the above info is helpful. I just feel like I need to have a better handle on all of this especially since I'm the only one. My dad's six years younger than my mom (78/72) and much younger in both body and spirit thank god. Still, this shit is so hard.

The good news is that now I don't think I'm allergic to my mother's cats. The bad news is that I think one of them has scabies (which would be what's causing the rashes on my hands and wrists). Then at work I just got back a set of massive and poorly documented changes to a document I'm working on.

This is really wicked of me, but I am sorely tempted right now to just return the cats to my mother and let her go her own way, in the hope that something catastrophic will happen. I thought I couldn't hate myself any more.

The good news: My mother has signed off on a will and medical and legal powers of attorney.
The bad news: I just tried talking to her again about cleaning out the house, only to be brushed off again. These cats are going to be with me for the rest of their lives Y/Y/Y?

Last week, I sat with my dad in a hospice facility in Florida for 8 hours every day for 6 days and watched my mother slowly die. She was completely unresponsive the entire time and we had no idea whether or not she knew we were there. The smell as her body began to shut down was something I will never forget. Nor is sitting on the floor and holding her hands so that I could look in her eyes on the off chance that she could see me or feel my presence as I told her it was OK to go. She must have lost 20 pounds in those six days. The way she looked the finally afternoon when the nursing aides came to turn her over was probably the most frightening thing I've ever seen. We got the call from the nurse that she'd passed about two hours after we left for the night. When we got to her room they'd placed a gold butterfly on the door and a rose in her hands. Hers was the first dead body I've ever seen and she was still warm. That was one week ago and today is my first day back at work. We had a very complicated relationship and she's been ill for a very long time. That said, this is the most intense and surreal experience.

i'm sorry to hear that enbb

i know what you mean by surreal as you describe something similar to what i felt when mine passed

thoughts are with you and your family

Very sorry indeed, ENBB. Sending best in such an upsetting time.

I'm so, so sorry ENBB. I watched my dad pass away slowly in hospice; like you, his was the first dead body I had ever seen and I have never been able to characterize the experience as good or bad, just IMMENSE, like being hit with a stray moon or something. Peace to you.

Love and peace, ENBB.

i'm so sorry E. we went through some of that with Mr Veg's mom.

I remember going to see her after they'd cut off all treatment. the change was so dramatic, she looked like a ghost almost. but her final hours brought all of us together in a way that we hadnt experienced as a family in a long time... and i felt a closeness with her that was sort of reassuring at the same time as being so sad and strange.

i know it's weird to say but i am glad you had that time with her <3

a minute or so after my dad passed, my aunt (she, my mom and me had been the only ones in the room) said 'he looks like a little baby' (which is not to say that the moment of passing was peaceful harps or anything; it wasn't) and she was otm

Although it might seem like a jarring note in the circumstances, I am glad to hear you were able to spend so many hours and days with your mom as she made the passage from life to death. I am certain it helped her to have you and your dad there so much of the time, and the immediacy and intensity of it will help both you and your dad assimilate and adjust to her departure. That adjustment can take a lot of unfamiliar shapes and you'll probably feel really weird at times, but the time you spent with her will mean a tremendous amount to you as time passes. My condolences.