AGING PARENTS

My grandmother fell getting out of the shower and refused to call anybody for help even though she was not alone in the house because "nobody wants to see this bitch naked." :(

Also my mom says that when she takes my grandmother shopping, my grandmother refuses to bring her cane or use the little motor scooters at the grocery store and instead uses my mom as a cane. Basically Mom Mom is going to break a hip sooner rather than later and it's very distressing because I don't think she will handle hospitalization/rehab very well.

my mom was like that, refusing to use a cane while her hip deteriorated, until she got a new hip and now she talks about her bionic hip all the time and walks with ease!
from what i remember, it sounds like your mom and your grandma have a really antagonistic relationship and it's affecting your grandma's decisionmaking?
would she listen to you?

It's not like bone-deep antagonism. More like antagonism that has developed over the last couple of years due to proximity. I actually think it's going to get a little easier once my mom retires in October because she won't be so stressed out by work and her long-ass commute. But right now my mom is definitely annoyed by most things my grandmother does, even if they are rational (like not wanting to go out to dinner because her knees hurt. Totally rational, but my grandmother didn't say "I don't want to go because my knees hurt." Instead she said, "I don't want to go because you want to spend more time with Jenny and the baby, and I'll just get in the way." Only later when I went to tell her that she's not in the way did she admit it was pain keeping her in the chair watching TCM).

She'll listen to me a little. I told her the next time she falls naked to call whoever is home right away and have them throw a towel on her. I definitely spent a lot of time during this last visit acting as a translator between the two of them because now they just talk past each other.

yeah that's what i meant, not that they were mortal enemies or w/e
feeling like someone is annoyed at me all the time yet still requiring their assistance would be enough to turn me into a pill too, esp if they're pass-agg annoyed. that smarts. and it's no one's fault it's just not...helping, yknow?

glad your gma listens to you!

like when my dad used to get mad at me when i ordered noodles and butter at a restaurant
i knew he disapproved of my choice (i was picky, i was a little kid) and he made it clear by grumbling and grousing but he didn't SAY anything so he thought he was free and clear. really, he was making me feel extremely embarrassed about wanting/needing to eat noodles and butter.

feeling like someone is annoyed at me all the time yet still requiring their assistance would be enough to turn me into a pill too, esp if they're pass-agg annoyed. that smarts. and it's no one's fault it's just not...helping, yknow?

Oh yeah. Alas mom is not exactly open to suggestion that a different approach might work better. She feels pretty put upon (there's a younger sister who is retired but claims she's too busy to help, which heightens the aggravation) and has always had a bit of pass-agg martyr tendencies anyway.

Really Mom could use some supportive therapy but when I've suggested it she says "Sounds great and when do I have time for that?" Fingers crossed for retirement.

My mom gets the results of her blood tests/PET scan tomorrow. :( I'm scared. I don't have a great feeling about it and knowing she will likely refuse all treatment is hard.

Thank you for letting me know who you are, Carl agatha, and I do remember seeing you around these parts back in the day. You are so very kind and it is wonderful that what I wrote touched you. Any time I think about not having any of my parents around I feel lost and adrift, but it really stings when I think about my mom because we made a team for almost twelve years and we were a package deal, and even when my caregiving demands became more and more stress-inducing (something that was alleviated when Sam's aunt started a wonderful caregiver support group on Facebook that I was welcomed into), it still fit into the routine we had set up for our lives. Anyway, it sounds like your mom is leading the kind of life my mom led in the '90s, when she had to worry about my grandmother who had been rendered stubborn and mean from Alzheimer's as well as working full time, maintaining a separate household, and having me be a teenager. Although I believe my dad and I helped as much as we could and I would hope the same for your mother.

ENBB, I hope that either your suspicions aor that your presumption of your mother's actions post-diagnosis are proven wrong. But whatever happens, try to be there emotionally for her and be a good listener. She will definitely appreciate that regardless of the outcome.

Sorry for all the typos there. Sometimes I don't quite master touch typing on the phone. Anyway. I wish there was a grief support group somewhere online that was relatively easy to join, much like the caregiver one was. The only local grief support groups I can find are for widows and widowers or for children, or for people who've lost a loved one to cancer. As I said before, the amputee support group proved invaluable to my mom and me, so I really believe in the power of support groups and feel like if I could find one to help me in my post-caregiver grief process, I would feel a lot better than I do right now.

Also, I miss bathing my mom. I had to use her shower (which was converted to make it easy for her to transfer onto a shower chair and wheel in the rest of the way) last night because mine got clogged up from three months of not being deep cleaned (it was all I could take just to dash home from the hospital to take a shower, so), so I need to get some drain cleaner, but for now I'm using Mom's shower, and every time I see those walls I remember shampooing and conditioning her hair and scrubbing her body down with a loofah saturated with a special body wash. And even though it took me a good hour to clean her completely because there were so many steps to it and I had to do so much before and after the actual shower itself, and even though at the very end of it all it felt like my arms were going to fall off, I would more than happily do that for twice a week like I had been doing (I would also wipe her down with cleaning wet wipes for the body twice a week) for another decade at least if it meant I could get my mom back.

GF's father (mid-80s, highly intelligent but faltering) was just talked out of $800 by a virtual kidnapping scammer. Suspect it's time for everyone to have a "how to talk to your parents about people trying to rip them off" moment... sigh.

he's certainly not alone

my mom volunteered in the consumer protection office for the state attorney general for a few years. a depressing number of cases were about companies or individuals that prey on the elderly :/

My grandmother almost fell prey to a scam disguised as a Publisher's Clearinghouse award (a letter basically saying we want to give you the award but we need some banking info from you first so please call this number and provide it), despite many such conversations. The worst was she tried to hide it from my parents because she was afraid they would say it was a scam and not let her go through with it! Actually no the worst was she confessed the whole thing to my aunt, who is a smart woman with multiple degrees and a background in science, and who also kept it from my parents because my grandmother asked her to. I can't remember how the truth came out but she was spared any losses and we reported the situation to the AG.

Anyway, I feel you about the frustration of this. Also the serious anger at people who take advantage of old folks.

mine are at or nearing Medicare age and I'm weary being their son. I've been bailing them out financially since I was 20 years old, despite them being able bodied and both employed mostly the entire time. Short story is they're irresponsible with money, live above their means, and are entitled to the point where they buy things because they "deserve" them and say they'll figure it out later. they also managed to ruin my brother's credit for similar reasons, after which he rightfully cut them off.

they just moved back and of course are already being a huge drain on us. my dad had to live with us temporarily for 2.5 months, in which they lived rent-free (as my mom stayed with a friend), were both working, with my dad getting social security on top of that, and still have no money. he filed bankruptcy 7 years ago and then somehow amassed new, crippling debt.

apparently the move sucked them dry and they want to borrow again, as if someone forced them to move here. we've had the talk before of how I can't keep doing this, but naturally when the alternative is my mom not having food I always cave (I blame my father for most of this).

by the time I actually have to legitimately take care of them....I have no idea how I'm going to have the energy to do it.

it sucks because it makes me resent them and then I feel guilty for THAT.

my grandparents got a call from someone claiming to be their granddaughter, saying she was in jail and needed them to send money to bail her out. Thank god they called my parents first, we figured out it was a scam pretty quick (just had to, uh, call my cousin and confirm that she was indeed not in jail). and apparently my other grandparents had the same scam attempted on them a few years back, but in this case it was someone claiming to be ME calling them up asking for money!

lol i remember now that my mom actually called the scammers back and told them off. that was pretty awesome.

my mom just gave me a coupon for $1 off yogurt. she wants me to mail it back to her if i don't use it

That's like Peak Mom right there.

no matter how much it needs to happen, or how right I know I am, it never feels good telling my 62 year old mother, who is fragile and loves with her whole heart, that her and my dad are stressing me out with their insane financial dependence on me for the last fifteen years.

but I finally had to do it tonight, as I'd bottled it up too long. it was easier for me to dish the shit to my father, who has somewhat poisoned our relationship by treating me like a bank, but I feel like equal parts relieved and equal parts shit now that I've had to tell them they're cut off and I need some air.

part of it's also me seeing them and doubly wanting to make sure I don't wind up that way. if I'm that poorly off at retirement age, there will be a carbon monoxide funeral in my future.

oh well...I think deep down I keep seeing the passage of time and worrying about them getting older and frail and that's why I've held back so long.

Has anyone heard of a disease or allergy or otherwise where the eyes are constantly swollen and teary and the salt eats away at the corneas? This is some bad stuff and folks are having real trouble finding anyone that knows how to treat it or what it is really. They just got back from another appointment and the lab had somehow forgotten to do some bloodwork. They've been seeing people since June.

They said something about the immune system being responsible, that it is attacking the eyes. It is scary stuff he's laying down all day w a cloth over his eyes doing drops every 1hr. Nobody they've seen has any clue.

Sjogren's syndrome? I think that's either where you stop producing tears or the tears produced are not H2O enough?

No this is constant tears.

I will ask them about that tho, thanks.

Sjogrens is not enough tears -- my mother-in-law has it. That sounds scary as hell, Adam.

could it be this?

http://care.american-rhinologic.org/epiphora

Maybe. I'll see them tomorrow and maybe find out more.

good luck! it sounds awful, hope you get some answers/cure soon

not my aging parent but christ it is fucking horrible the way some companies go hard after elderly people. my wife's dad is 86 and he gets calls all day long from people claiming he owes money to the IRS, people telling him there's a virus on his computer and they need access to it, he gets mail from Publisher's Clearing House all the time, or other similar companies where he's won like 2 million bucks* (*just buy this set of tools and you'll be in line for the prize, you might be the lucky one!)

and now I just got off the phone with some fucking skin care company that corralled him into a trial membership for the low low price of $10 for two samples of skin cream, with monthly charges of $200 for both for the subsequent 12 months (or until he stops membership.)

i acted old on the phone, just in case. i think i did a pretty good job and jeez if you think trying to cancel cable is bad, try to cancel this shit. they at first said i couldn't cancel because i was still in the trial period, then they said they would lower the cost by 50%, then finally said i would just have to pay like $50 for the creams i already had and i doddered about and finally told them "ok."

fucking monsters, all of them. he's already throwing $5k a month at long term care for my wife's mom (bc of alzheimer's, bc of course insurance won't cover it.)

I get so upset about this ^^^^ kinda thing. I'm so glad that your FIL has ppl looking out for him to mitigate this stuff but so upset for all of the vulnerable people (not just elders) out there who are very systematically preyed upon and have no safety net if there isn't an attentive and involved loved one. Which, with the most vulnerable, there is often not.

I mentioned it upthread, but if your state has a consumer protection office, report this shit. I have no doubt it's one of those things that is getting gutted in many places, but it's often part of a state's attorney general's office and does advocacy for people like your father in law. Giving them a heads-up about new phone scams is useful.

Bump because I'm probably going to be visiting this thread a lot. My 76-year-old mother drives reasonably well and seems perfectly coherent if you talk to her, but cannot take care of the house--imagine an East Coast center-hall colonial in much the same condition as the pictures above.

Another forum recommended that I talk to the county Adult Protective Services office and seek out a lawyer to talk power of attorney. Does anyone here have any advice on this?

A related issue: my Aunt Donna (sister of my late father) has been living alone. Three weeks ago she collapsed with some sort of seizure. The good news is that she has a circle of friends who found her soon after said collapse and rushed her to the hospital. The doctors still haven't made a diagnosis, but she's made enough of a recovery to call my mother yesterday.

Apparently my aunt's circle of friends has dealt enough with these matters to have power of attorney and related documents prepared in advance. I wish my mother had a circle of friends like that (she has a few long-distance friends; I don't think she has any face-to-face friends). I wish I had a circle of friends like that.

It might be difficult, but I'd suggest talking this over with your mother and persuading her to see a lawyer with you to prepare a will, power of attorney, and related healthcare documents. She might not agree immediately, but give her some time to think about it, keep bringing it up, and perhaps get other family members to encourage her. It's to her benefit as well as yours for her to do this while she can consider and choose the options that work best for her. Once that paperwork is done, it's one less thing for everyone to worry about.

If she's still driving safely and is rational but can't take care of her house any more, a simple option might be hiring someone to come in and do some cleaning. Everyone ages differently and loses competencies at different rates. A chaotic house doesn't necessarily mean that she can't still function independently, but it does signal she's starting to need more help and ought to observed closely in case her capacity declines in other areas (for example, not eating properly, not keeping track of medications, or forgetting or over-paying bills).

My father is 82 and last year his Alzheimer's advanced to the point where he had to move into a memory care facility. By then I was already taking care of his banking, taxes, etc. If I hadn't had power of attorney it would have been much harder to do everything that was needed for his care. According to a lawyer I met with, the alternative to his having granted me power of attorney while he was competent would have been for me to apply for a conservatorship or guardianship, which could have taken months at a time when major decisions needed to be made in a hurry.

It's strange to look back over the last 10 years and realize how completely my relationship with my father changed during that time. I had to set aside some lingering hard feelings and become the more responsible and care-giving person in our relationship. My father also had to acknowledge that his memory problems were severe and that he needed my support. Both of us had to overcome lifelong patterns of fighting with and then withdrawing from each other and instead talk much more openly than we ever had. I'm glad I took the initiative and that we got together on what to do before it was too late.

I went to my mother's house today, where I broached the subject of moving in the near future and letting my sister and I deal with the house. She didn't agree right there, but I think she was listening. I also tried talking about her eating habits (the kitchen can only be described as a "disaster area"), but she got belligerent.

One piece of good news: my mother had been talking about finding an attorney to take my late father's name off the house title. More recently she would mention maybe having a will done at the same time. I volunteered to find a lawyer and make an appointment, and when she agreed, she mentioned "power of attorney" without being prompted. It's possible that Aunt Donna's recent health issues have made it clear that it's better to prepare these things in advance, rather than scramble around after something has happened.

AGING PARENTS are a big chunk of my life both personal (father with Alzheimer's) and professional (hospice social worker). Can't echo more strongly what Brad C. and others have said about getting living will (including naming medical POA) and financial POA.

J.lu I've had to make DC APS reports on multiple occasions; ime if the person in question has decision-making capacity, APS won't do boo even if the decisions the person is making are clearly not in their best interest. And the DC guardianship process is a cluster easily avoided with medical/financial POA (these don't have to be the same person, lots of families I work with divvy it up). Those documents and living wills can be done without an attorney, let me know if you'd like me to point you to forms available online. Only the financial POA requires notarization (and I'm a notary so holler if you need one!).

Yes please point to online help! My parents have 0 documents prepared and I'm an only child. Their reason for not having anything prepared is that everything will fall to me regardless :-/

http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289

Another alternative is Five Wishes, a very plain-language, legalese-free advance directive that is recognized in 40+ states. There is a small cost and it is a little emo for my own personal taste, but it is very approachable and actually a lot more comprehensive than a lot of the state versions. https://www.agingwithdignity.org/

For basic financial POA documents, I just google Durable Power of Attorney + name of the state and find a .gov link. Don't pay money!

Some people use legalzoom or similar online service for after-you're-dead wills, but unless you have a very straightforward situation (which maybe your parents do), a trust and estate lawyer is a good idea. Even if you are an only child, their estate will have to go through probate if they die intestate! AVOID!

^^ everything that quincie said

ime if the person in question has decision-making capacity, APS won't do boo even if the decisions the person is making are clearly not in their best interest.

currently we are trying to convince my live-in 85-yr old FIL that it is not in his best interest to move back to New York with no support network or plan, originally he was gonna sell the (empty) house but he has gotten cold feet basically so we are in a holding pattern. hopefully he will realize that he can't fend for himself, but if he insists on going I think we can make sure he gets an apartment ahead of time...

and yeah, fortunately my wife has all that POA stuff dialed in, got that done a few years back and boy are we glad.

Thanks for the info quincie. What does intestate mean? I'm in total denial about my aging parents.

Idk want "go through probate" means either but I can tell it's something to be avoided & has to do with court.

Another thing about POA, durable POA for healthcare, etc. -- be sure you keep the originals somewhere safe and secure. I spent about two years searching for the certified original copy of my father's POA; before that I had only photocopies, which probably wouldn't have been accepted if I had tried to make changes to his financial accounts or to sell his real estate.

Knowing where important documents are is especially important if your AGING PARENTS have memory problems because eventually they will not remember which very safe place they put them in.

xp "Intestate" is the condition of not having a valid Last Will and Testament. If you die intestate, the disposition of your property is determined by state law and the judgment of the probate court rather than by the terms of your will. I don't think probate can be avoided for most people's estates. Having a will makes that process a lot smoother. Also see above about certified original copies. My only copy of my father's will is a photocopy, which might or might not be accepted at probate. The terms of his will are so simplistic that the outcome would be much the same either way, but for many families it could make a big difference.

I don't know much about how the probate process works, so I'd appreciate more info about this too.

Hi Quincie,

My mother is in Rockville, so I'd be dealing with the Montgomery County APS--do you know how responsive, effective, etc. they are?

A couple of years ago I gave my mother a copy of Five Wishes. Earlier today I found it at the house (uncompleted and insect-stained). Drafting the will and POA based on online templates is probably the best way to start. However, since my mother WANTS to talk to a lawyer about the house title, and seems to be receptive to preparing a POA and a will, I'd like a lawyer to look at the documents. A little preliminary work on Yelp identified two possible firms; does anyone have any better ideas for finding a lawyer?

I now work in MoCo, actually! I have not yet had any interaction with MoCo APS, but according to colleagues it's much the same story: person has capacity? Best of luck to you! The MoCo Office of Aging and Disability may be more helpful, but probably not by much.

Again via colleagues I've been given names of two trust&estate attys who seem to be well-liked; I'll e-mail those to you when I'm back in the office.

Idea: everyone on ILX can ship their AGING PARENTS and a buttload of money to me and I'll take care of everything!

I'm starting to lowkey freak out about the fact that I live in another country from my (somewhat rapidly) aging parents. Like How TF am I going to deal w this.

urgh - sorry J. Lu for the situation you're in - this is all terribly familiar.
These last 7 years, I've considered most of the options upthread but my mother has been very hostile and belligerent to any suggestion that she may not be 100% lucid. It is basically impossible to talk about these things with her, she will just clam up and get upset. My solution has been to bring in more and more house-help under somewhat false pretenses - ie a "cleaning lady" coming in every day for a couple of hours. It costs us a fortune but the peace of mind it's brought me in the last couple of years is, as they say, priceless.

Tracer I know the feeling. My brother still lives in the usa & even in the same city as them so he'll shoulder the physical burden at least.

It's possible for me to bring them here too if things get very bad.

I can't imagine that Tracer. Every time I've had the chance to live in another country I've avoided it because of the distance it would put between my parents and me. How long have you lived overseas now?