West's "critique" basically consists of baldly inaccurate assertions about Coates' writing and the not-so-subtle insinuation that Coates should be more like Cornel West.
it was kinda hard tbh
xp
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 July 2015 22:40 (eight years ago) link
It was painful because you claim familiarity with Coates, the pictures claim was that Coates is silent on these things, and Coates obviously has written a bunch on them.
I mean I went to google and typed in "Coates ferguson" and hit the jackpot. We weren't leaving out content, the content is evident due to familiarity or for anyone who looks for ten seconds.
― Upright Mammal (mh), Thursday, 16 July 2015 22:44 (eight years ago) link
toadiebs
― goole, Thursday, 16 July 2015 22:09 (36 minutes ago)
thread justified forever
― irl lol (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 July 2015 22:55 (eight years ago) link
Thank you for condescending to share actual stuff --- and it's some convincing stuff too.
(Was that so hard?)
― Vic Perry, Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:39 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you weren't willing to find out for yourself. do you even actually care about this?
― brimstead, Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:01 (eight years ago) link
look i just googled "coates obama" was that so hard?
― brimstead, Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:02 (eight years ago) link
No, you're right - I can find out things elsewhere - so why should anybody bother reading these threads again?
― Vic Perry, Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:06 (eight years ago) link
TNC has actually criticized obama to his face (the story starts about 10 paragraphs down):
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/ta-nehisi-coates-between-the-world-and-me.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:10 (eight years ago) link
ok so can we stop talking about that and just dwell on the majesty of
@tanehisicoatesThere is your half-a-bar @freddiedeboer You've been asking for it for years.
― got bent (mild cheezed off vibes) (s.clover), Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:37 (eight years ago) link
freddie five years ago
http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/04/09/why-tiger-beatdown-has-jokes-on-it-turns-out-some-motherfucker-had-to-ask-me
http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/04/11/boners-for-fun-and-profit-the-extent-to-which-you-dont-care-about-boners-revealed
fair to say that tnc let him off easy
― mookieproof, Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:49 (eight years ago) link
― Vic Perry, Thursday, July 16, 2015 6:39 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you could have actually done your own homework, you fucking dolt
― wisdom be leakin out my louche douche truths (k3vin k.), Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:52 (eight years ago) link
lol vic perry u a dumbass bruh
― i'm not a dogg (sleepingbag), Thursday, 16 July 2015 23:54 (eight years ago) link
sorry for posting the west image i just wanted to share a light chuckle i didn't foresee this :(
― Merdeyeux, Friday, 17 July 2015 00:00 (eight years ago) link
Look, I have to tell you: your whole enterprise here, the whole long and short of it, appears to be an edifice designed to give you a platform that paws at discourse while denying the possibility of you ever getting called on anything.
★ ★ ★ the internet ★ ★ ★
― j., Friday, 17 July 2015 01:25 (eight years ago) link
Dont be mean guys
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 July 2015 01:37 (eight years ago) link
Freddie is otm there though... but the point of tiger beatdown isn't fostering dialogue with ppl who disagree. Internet writing has other functions
― Treeship, Friday, 17 July 2015 01:46 (eight years ago) link
he only gets half a bar. that's as cold as it comes.
― got bent (mild cheezed off vibes) (s.clover), Friday, 17 July 2015 02:33 (eight years ago) link
freddie was staking out some early 'not all men'/'all lives matter' territory there. he may not have been exactly wrong, but his priorities were . . . misguided
btw has andrew sullivan weighed in yet?
― mookieproof, Friday, 17 July 2015 02:43 (eight years ago) link
do I have to click on a David Brooks column titled "Listening to Ta-Nehisi Coates While White"
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 July 2015 13:25 (eight years ago) link
it's kind of Brooks In Excelsis, really breathtaking stuff
― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Friday, 17 July 2015 13:46 (eight years ago) link
ha ha I love that a column titled "Listening to Ta-Nehisi Coates" begins "Dear Ta-Nehisi Coates"
― Most Scientifically Beautiful Face (President Keyes), Friday, 17 July 2015 14:01 (eight years ago) link
'I read this all like a slap'
let's not be too literary then
― j., Friday, 17 July 2015 14:03 (eight years ago) link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QtwIwAGoVChMIs7igw7rixgIV1xeSCh3dcwrq&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D55ylhBDysbI&ei=DxypVfP0ENevyATd56nQDg&usg=AFQjCNHxHocaW3V40WZ0uHbzMICXrg_dpA&bvm=bv.98197061,d.aWw
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 July 2015 15:15 (eight years ago) link
uh oops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ylhBDysbI
http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/07/17/to-the-horde/
― where the sterls have no name (s.clover), Saturday, 18 July 2015 03:09 (eight years ago) link
i am not talking about freddie de boer.
regarding the "bodies" refrain in between the world and me, it's because he wants to ground his discussion of racism in violence. that is the central reality of black life the book is concerned with. yes, this is reminiscent of a way the term "body" was used in the humanities academy 15 years ago, but i don't think it's a stylistic tic, nor do i think it's wrongheaded. i think it works.
― horseshoe, Saturday, 18 July 2015 03:21 (eight years ago) link
and maybe i'm being dim or misunderstanding the criticism upthread, but, like, that is just true. the history of anti-black racism in this country is the story of the brutalization of the black body. that seems so obvious and embarrassing to type out that i think i must be missing something.
― horseshoe, Saturday, 18 July 2015 03:25 (eight years ago) link
i just posted that fdb thing because we were talking about him upthread and now he seems like he walked some of his stuff back
― where the sterls have no name (s.clover), Saturday, 18 July 2015 05:41 (eight years ago) link
horseshoe otm
I wasn't critiquing TNC's use of "bodies" as much as like, "unpacking" it, and looking at the pitfalls of that linguistic habit in the hands of less capable writers. Basically I agree with drash: equating the self with the body, as Coates does, is a metaphysical fiction the same way equating the self with the mind or the soul is. Coates chooses this ontology bc it fits his political worldview. (I think everyone's philosophical positions are determined by concerns outside philosophy.)
Anyway, I filled up a lot of this thread with that line of thinking - sometimes i forget i'm not getting course credit for ilx posts
― Treeship, Saturday, 18 July 2015 12:12 (eight years ago) link
might be able to write to the dean to ask for an independent study exception
― j., Saturday, 18 July 2015 14:43 (eight years ago) link
almost done with the book. beautifully done.
― where the sterls have no name (s.clover), Sunday, 19 July 2015 01:03 (eight years ago) link
yeah it is wonderful
― horseshoe, Sunday, 19 July 2015 01:35 (eight years ago) link
just finished.
the way he ends with global warming is a terrible letdown.
but there are some amazingly powerful, lyrical passages right before.
― where the sterls have no name (s.clover), Sunday, 19 July 2015 03:04 (eight years ago) link
whoa - missed that. he ends with global warming? in any case, if found the last couple sentences really powerful - the liquor stores, beauty shops, churches, boarded up houses, and rain coming down in sheets.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 19 July 2015 17:18 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ZRSe7AB.png
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 July 2015 22:42 (eight years ago) link
― horseshoe, Friday, July 17, 2015 11:25 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and the black mind, black ppl, there are no minds w/o bodies no bodies w/o minds, its just people, it just feels like a pointlessly pedantic and awkward formulation to me
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 July 2015 22:45 (eight years ago) link
Right: pointlessly pedantic, awkward --- also pretentious. And doomed: this is a funny historical moment to declare some old school Cartesian dualism. Which, I would note, has not exactly proved to be a great friend to the downtrodden.
― Vic Perry, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 00:05 (eight years ago) link
― horseshoe, Friday, July 17, 2015 10:21 PM (1 week ago)
^^^ I think it's a great rhetorical device.
― rack of lamb of god (WilliamC), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 00:22 (eight years ago) link
would probably play better had there not been all those articles about Miley exploiting the black body after that award show
― Why because she True and Interesting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 00:31 (eight years ago) link
That's right, Miley Cyrus ruined black activism
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 02:59 (eight years ago) link
She was never meant to be a part of Dr. King's dream.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 04:08 (eight years ago) link
And doomed: this is a funny historical moment to declare some old school Cartesian dualism.
Right, but you dig that's exactly the opposite of what T-NC's doing, right?
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 07:41 (eight years ago) link
― lag∞n, Monday, July 27, 2015 6:45 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
don't understand how it's pedantic; can't really convince you it's not awkward.
coates's whole point is that to be black in America is to feel disembodied--to not be allowed to feel like a person, feel your mind and body integrated. i agree with him that physical pain inflicts a kind of disembodiment/annihilation of bodily integrity.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 14:56 (eight years ago) link
It's good that lag∞n is here to tell us how minorities should describe the experience of being a minority in this country
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Tuesday, 28 July 2015 14:58 (eight years ago) link
im not telling anyone how they shd talk abt their experience, im talking abt my experience of reading this writing, and while i think tnc is one of the best out there i think his adoption of academic language degrades his writing
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:31 (eight years ago) link
its p interesting that this terminology of body to refer to ppl emerged from the academy which is the ultimate mind prioritized over body culture
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:36 (eight years ago) link
p entirely predictable, u mean
I don't know, I think Coates's use of "body" echoes its theoretical use in the academy but is not identical to it. It's idiosyncratic and poetic in his usage.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:56 (eight years ago) link
Like part of its purpose is to serve as a metaphor for something inexpressible
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:57 (eight years ago) link
you are pretty clearly not into his use of it, but I don't think it's merely theoryspeak.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 15:58 (eight years ago) link
yeah i mean his usage is prob meant to stick out and be noticed which cld be seen as using a artless form artfully, just the academic focus on lexicon as the the ultimate unit of meaning kinda drives me nuts, also im just not sure abt physical oppression really being more key than physiological, they necessarily always work together, ultimately obvs these are all quibbles of what is a good and important work, and also an indication of how tnc manages to be compelling on all diff levels while writing abt extremely difficult topics
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 July 2015 16:07 (eight years ago) link