Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

you're not made entirely

Oh hey, over here (I'm picturing a pile of posters with nothing specific underneath, ooph).

Earlier I asked if anybody would make a specific argument as to why West is wrong about Coates. (I like Coates by the way). Not only couldn't you manage the most basic argument, you righteously explained why it was beneath you to do

Unsurprisingly, "I Refuse To Make A Coherent Argument Because You Suck" is a thing at ILX. Otherwise coherent arguments would need to be made and how do you manage a good pile on that way.

The tragic Outic bits on why the New Republic arguments aren't sexist are just sad. Dude, nobody in the 21st C quoting the "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" deserves the slightest consideration. Do YOU go around quoting that shit? I haven't heard such convincing arguments since that guy in my high school locker room called another guy a "woman". Yeah, man. Men should be men, you know?

Again, I'm absolutely amazed that such an utterly Peee Ceee discussion space as ILX would actually decide at this moment in time to say, hey, in this case it is okay, just cuz they talking about men, to repeat dumbass sexist ideas about women (as somehow particularly prone to irrational behavior around jealousy --- never mind the track record of homicidal jealous males throughout history, hell hath no fury etc.)

tl; waste of time; dr

feel like you are arguing in bad faith what with the chronic (apparently intentional?) misquoting, inability to read etc. so I'm a let yr completely baseless sexist accusation against the Dyson piece go, since (as others have pointed out) you are simply using it as a shitty misdirection tactic.

as far as why West is wrong about quotes, he makes several assertions which are just flat-out wrong and inaccurate. Coates has criticized Obama, and he has written about the "new militancy" (as West calls it) in Ferguson, Baltimore etc. Do you want me to post links

xp

wrong about COATES gah

That I could believe. Would it be too much to ask that somebody explain WHY EXACTLY West is wrong about Coates? Pretty please?

speak for yourself

― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:10 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

just because vp is totally incoherent doesn't mean you're made entirely of kneejerks

― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:13 PM (18 minutes ago)

ok, what?

WHY EXACTLY West is wrong about Coates? Pretty please?

Because he criticizes Coates for being silent about things Coates has not actually been silent about

I am biting my tongue here fwiw

here I googled something for you

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/how-the-obama-administration-talks-to-black-america/276015/

In which Coates talks about Obama's weaknesses and addresses the situation in Ferguson. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/11/barack-obama-ferguson-and-the-evidence-of-things-unsaid/383212/

Thank you for condescending to share actual stuff --- and it's some convincing stuff too.

(Was that so hard?)

West's "critique" basically consists of baldly inaccurate assertions about Coates' writing and the not-so-subtle insinuation that Coates should be more like Cornel West.

it was kinda hard tbh

xp

It was painful because you claim familiarity with Coates, the pictures claim was that Coates is silent on these things, and Coates obviously has written a bunch on them.

I mean I went to google and typed in "Coates ferguson" and hit the jackpot. We weren't leaving out content, the content is evident due to familiarity or for anyone who looks for ten seconds.

toadiebs

― goole, Thursday, 16 July 2015 22:09 (36 minutes ago)

thread justified forever

Thank you for condescending to share actual stuff --- and it's some convincing stuff too.

(Was that so hard?)

― Vic Perry, Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:39 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you weren't willing to find out for yourself. do you even actually care about this?

look i just googled "coates obama" was that so hard?

No, you're right - I can find out things elsewhere - so why should anybody bother reading these threads again?

TNC has actually criticized obama to his face (the story starts about 10 paragraphs down):

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/ta-nehisi-coates-between-the-world-and-me.html

ok so can we stop talking about that and just dwell on the majesty of

@tanehisicoates
There is your half-a-bar @freddiedeboer You've been asking for it for years.

freddie five years ago

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/04/09/why-tiger-beatdown-has-jokes-on-it-turns-out-some-motherfucker-had-to-ask-me

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/04/11/boners-for-fun-and-profit-the-extent-to-which-you-dont-care-about-boners-revealed

fair to say that tnc let him off easy

Thank you for condescending to share actual stuff --- and it's some convincing stuff too.

(Was that so hard?)

― Vic Perry, Thursday, July 16, 2015 6:39 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you could have actually done your own homework, you fucking dolt

lol vic perry u a dumbass bruh

sorry for posting the west image i just wanted to share a light chuckle i didn't foresee this :(

Look, I have to tell you: your whole enterprise here, the whole long and short of it, appears to be an edifice designed to give you a platform that paws at discourse while denying the possibility of you ever getting called on anything.

★ ★ ★ the internet ★ ★ ★

Dont be mean guys

Freddie is otm there though... but the point of tiger beatdown isn't fostering dialogue with ppl who disagree. Internet writing has other functions

he only gets half a bar. that's as cold as it comes.

freddie was staking out some early 'not all men'/'all lives matter' territory there. he may not have been exactly wrong, but his priorities were . . . misguided

btw has andrew sullivan weighed in yet?

do I have to click on a David Brooks column titled "Listening to Ta-Nehisi Coates While White"

it's kind of Brooks In Excelsis, really breathtaking stuff

ha ha I love that a column titled "Listening to Ta-Nehisi Coates" begins "Dear Ta-Nehisi Coates"

'I read this all like a slap'

let's not be too literary then

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QtwIwAGoVChMIs7igw7rixgIV1xeSCh3dcwrq&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D55ylhBDysbI&ei=DxypVfP0ENevyATd56nQDg&usg=AFQjCNHxHocaW3V40WZ0uHbzMICXrg_dpA&bvm=bv.98197061,d.aWw

uh oops

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ylhBDysbI

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/07/17/to-the-horde/

i am not talking about freddie de boer.

regarding the "bodies" refrain in between the world and me, it's because he wants to ground his discussion of racism in violence. that is the central reality of black life the book is concerned with. yes, this is reminiscent of a way the term "body" was used in the humanities academy 15 years ago, but i don't think it's a stylistic tic, nor do i think it's wrongheaded. i think it works.

and maybe i'm being dim or misunderstanding the criticism upthread, but, like, that is just true. the history of anti-black racism in this country is the story of the brutalization of the black body. that seems so obvious and embarrassing to type out that i think i must be missing something.

i just posted that fdb thing because we were talking about him upthread and now he seems like he walked some of his stuff back

horseshoe otm

I wasn't critiquing TNC's use of "bodies" as much as like, "unpacking" it, and looking at the pitfalls of that linguistic habit in the hands of less capable writers. Basically I agree with drash: equating the self with the body, as Coates does, is a metaphysical fiction the same way equating the self with the mind or the soul is. Coates chooses this ontology bc it fits his political worldview. (I think everyone's philosophical positions are determined by concerns outside philosophy.)

Anyway, I filled up a lot of this thread with that line of thinking - sometimes i forget i'm not getting course credit for ilx posts

might be able to write to the dean to ask for an independent study exception

almost done with the book. beautifully done.

yeah it is wonderful

just finished.

the way he ends with global warming is a terrible letdown.

but there are some amazingly powerful, lyrical passages right before.

whoa - missed that. he ends with global warming? in any case, if found the last couple sentences really powerful - the liquor stores, beauty shops, churches, boarded up houses, and rain coming down in sheets.

http://i.imgur.com/ZRSe7AB.png

and maybe i'm being dim or misunderstanding the criticism upthread, but, like, that is just true. the history of anti-black racism in this country is the story of the brutalization of the black body. that seems so obvious and embarrassing to type out that i think i must be missing something.

― horseshoe, Friday, July 17, 2015 11:25 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and the black mind, black ppl, there are no minds w/o bodies no bodies w/o minds, its just people, it just feels like a pointlessly pedantic and awkward formulation to me

Right: pointlessly pedantic, awkward --- also pretentious. And doomed: this is a funny historical moment to declare some old school Cartesian dualism. Which, I would note, has not exactly proved to be a great friend to the downtrodden.

regarding the "bodies" refrain in between the world and me, it's because he wants to ground his discussion of racism in violence. that is the central reality of black life the book is concerned with. yes, this is reminiscent of a way the term "body" was used in the humanities academy 15 years ago, but i don't think it's a stylistic tic, nor do i think it's wrongheaded. i think it works.

― horseshoe, Friday, July 17, 2015 10:21 PM (1 week ago)

^^^ I think it's a great rhetorical device.