in that piece imo caputo isnt saying enough, in parts.
fwiw i think there's a longer tradition of this type of thinking, its not just starting from zero. frantz fanon & post colonial studies generally for ex
but then i find this stuff to be p convincing, to a point, if a bit deterministichttp://www.metamute.org/editorial/articles/wanderings-slave-black-life-and-social-death
they consider the slave to be in a state of 'ontological death,' actually, and posit that race is not a conflict but an antagonism; that western society is built upon the existence of a slave class
think about how insufficient ending the war on drugs would be at reversing the current paradigm ... think about michelle alexander saying the same % of ppl who were enslaved in 1860 are currently in prison or under court surveillance ... etc
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 18:24 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/Rwpe669.png
roasted
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:19 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/4sDAaJO.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:21 (eight years ago) link
freddie gotgored
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:21 (eight years ago) link
not a response to TNC:
Freddie @freddiedeboer May 13I think it was Mao who said "Political power grows out of the barrel of a sick burn."
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:22 (eight years ago) link
fuck!
― goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:23 (eight years ago) link
r they gonna fight
http://i.imgur.com/b7Euy0y.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:36 (eight years ago) link
freddie's twitter pic looks like he's about to cry
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:37 (eight years ago) link
This is a bad look for our friend freddie
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:38 (eight years ago) link
today is kick freddie day
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:39 (eight years ago) link
on one hand i'm sure he knew/knows the amount of blowback he's going to get from attacking tnc, esp this week of all weeks, which makes it some kind of pyrrhic opportunism - i almost respect how quickly + willingly he is to take whatever damage this crusade might do to his reputation / online persona / whatever. all publicity is good publicity. otoh what a fucking moron.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:41 (eight years ago) link
i cld possible kinda admire him for it if his whole schtick wasnt so entry level and self righteous
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:42 (eight years ago) link
no magazine covers no aspen friends just you and me mano y mano, broooooo
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:43 (eight years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJ-q7stUcAA-v7h.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:44 (eight years ago) link
vulnerable? what exactly r u talking abtttttttttttt
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
You + me + my tenure application, hosa
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
surprised Freddie didn't just call him "uppity"
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
give him time
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:47 (eight years ago) link
In the old days they would've exchanged nasty articulate letters in The New York Review of Books
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:47 (eight years ago) link
srsly just caught myself fantasizing abt rubbernecking an epic online meltdown lol
more like freddie da boor
― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:54 (eight years ago) link
his "media criticism" reduces to fidgety anxiety about what the popular kids are doing; this li'l episode isn't much different
― goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:54 (eight years ago) link
otm
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:55 (eight years ago) link
lagoon r u making the popcorn or will i
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:57 (eight years ago) link
coat the world in popcorn
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK3ZP6frAMc
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:03 (eight years ago) link
goole otm
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:07 (eight years ago) link
i just winced all the way into my chair
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:09 (eight years ago) link
nice
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:11 (eight years ago) link
@useful_noisedude's following his m.o.: warn about dangers of a strawman "consensus," then claim any argument against him proves his point
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:12 (eight years ago) link
this seems like a suicide mission
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:13 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/BxZHXgZ.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:18 (eight years ago) link
Jesus even his posts about his sick dog are pedantic and fucking endless
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:35 (eight years ago) link
irl grimacingwatching horrible slow-motion intentional car crash
― drash, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:43 (eight years ago) link
literally no idea who freddie deboer is but i went to his website and it has a link to an amazon wish list full of vinyl and video games and stuff that has been constantly updated for the last five years?? is this a normal thing for professional ppl to do??
― i'm not a dogg (sleepingbag), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:57 (eight years ago) link
camgirls sure
― j., Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:02 (eight years ago) link
Linear Mixed-Effects Models Using R: A Step-by-Step Approach (Springer Texts in Statistics)
lol
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:21 (eight years ago) link
when i was a teenager i tirelessly edited my livejournal profile’s interests to appear smart and cool
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:22 (eight years ago) link
DeBoer is one of those writers who is even more annoying for potentially discrediting his better positions I would also espouse by being such a dope in general. Thanks a lot.
― Vic Perry, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:39 (eight years ago) link
campgirls don't deserve this treatment.
― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:40 (eight years ago) link
His post a few days ago complaining about liberal gays who believe they're Born This Way was so tendentious that I suspect he's a frustrated pop critic who wants to write about Lady Gaga
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:48 (eight years ago) link
omg love this wasteman
had never heard of him before but from the moment I first laid eyes on his loving description of how judiciously he would read this book uncritically praised by all other people I knew that this was a useless drooping prick that wasn't done applying its clown makeup
― Trap Queenius (wins), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 22:19 (eight years ago) link
He'll read you the right way
― Most Scientifically Beautiful Face (President Keyes), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 22:22 (eight years ago) link
I doubt it, nobody else seems capable
― Trap Queenius (wins), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 22:25 (eight years ago) link
(non sequitur post, please ignore)
My approximation of how black studies would respond to this is that the slave class--which is contiguous with the system now referred to as blackness--is denied a subjectivity; the Cartesian subject is a white subject. The structures of race are themselves ontological
largely agree with treeship’s response (though don't think caputo’s position is what treeship ascribes to him)
skimmed metamute piece, wd have to read more patiently, find myself objecting to a lot of it (but maybe my objections just/mostly philosophical/academic)
my problem maybe (in response to this piece, tnc re ‘bodies’, & yr post, deej) is absoluteness of linguistic/conceptual formulations, unbridgeable dichotomies, what seem like false either/ors (in their own way falling prey to form of conceptual 'purification')
v necessary to critique— historicize, genealogize, deconstruct— philosophical constructs like pure reason, cartesian ego, kantian transcendental subject
part of that is seeing how constructs involve (invisibly) operations of exclusion, difference from/ negation of other(s) (nonrational, nonmale, nonwhite etc)— ‘absences’ which, when made visible, typically, not coincidentally, are/ appear as bodies
critique all the more important bc such constructs likely involved (invisibly) in present structures of injustice
but it’s one thing to say “the Cartesian subject is a white subject,” or that blackness was “denied a subjectivity”& another to reject e.g. notion of ‘subjectivity’ entirely
don’t like when language is reified, overregulated, for (even well-intentioned) political reasonsthink there’s more power in having plurality, diversity of language-games (language-games which can be (re)appropriated, reinterpreted, reinvented) through which to articulate experience
nb none of this is criticism of tnc; his choice of language is deliberate directed effectivejust questioning pervasive adoption of ‘black bodies’ formulation
― drash, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 23:00 (eight years ago) link
quite like the sound of that book on r but I've not time right now to give it the full attn
― irl lol (darraghmac), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 23:02 (eight years ago) link
Isn't this where someone points out that blackness is an absolute? In its social function? Like, Rachel dolezal is white and that's an absolute
Anyway, I don't think the idea is to reject that subjectivity exists in the individual but in the individuals systemic identity, a slave to a skin tone
Idk I'm not the ideal person to argue this, I've only read a few chapters of wilderson and never went to grad school but
Metamute piece isn't what you're disagreeing with, it's a dispassionate qualitative description of a movement w/in black studies that has garnered a lot of traction win the last decade
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 23:46 (eight years ago) link
Re afro-pessimism, I don't get why rationality/subjectivity is posited as *necessarily* defined against blackness, to a degree that can't be overcome except through a total revolution or what Wilderson calls the "end of the world." Passages like this seem to draw the worst conclusions from the observations of clearly accurate observations about the colonialist and racist subtext of Western notions of "pure" rationalism:
In relation to riots in particular, calls for ‘social justice’, ‘rights’, ‘police accountability and transparency’ obscure the essence of these movements, whose meaning resides entirely on the surface. They are fundamentally demandless and intentionally destructive. There is no ‘point’ except for utter dissolution of the current state of affairs. As viewed by the Afro-pessimists, the demandlessness of these struggles cannot be reduced to any single empirical aspect – freedom here and now must be absolute not relative. An irreconcilable antagonism produces black existence positioning it against humanity. This antagonism can only be resolved by the cathartic purge of violence. It is the use of violence that must first be expropriated, both materially and symbolically.
I think it misunderstands the recent riots to see them as a cathartic purge of violence against ontological imprisonment. They are a display of righteous anger against literal imprisonment - the imprisonment of bodies. African Americans are political agents, if oppressed and marginalized ones. These struggles are about claiming agency; they're not fundamentally antisocial.*
*maybe i misunderstand what's being said, always a risk with critical theory whether you've been to grad school or not
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 23:58 (eight years ago) link
Me too.
I'd note first off that this is a classic move by privileged intellectuals: The People (We Love Them But They) don't understand what they want; they need us to explain it. "They are fundamentally demandless" it says - UM, REALLY? Like, wanting to actually hold cops to what is supposed to be the law is no demand of rioters responding to police violence? They're just throwing up their hands in the air like they don't care?
Interesting how this "liberating" view doesn't differ in many ways from appalling racist views of rioters as thugs. "An irreconcilable antagonism produces black existence positioning it against humanity." Charles Krauthammer might phrase it a little differently, but hey.
It's not like there aren't any conventionally rational & reasonable arguments against racism or police violence. Actually, I don't know of any conventionally rational & reasonable arguments FOR them.
Ergo, rationality and reasonableness wouldn't seem to be the prime oppressor here. What exactly is proposed as a replacement anyway, besides more grad school?
― Vic Perry, Thursday, 16 July 2015 00:40 (eight years ago) link
freddie died for our sins http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/07/15/i-still-like-em/
― lag∞n, Thursday, 16 July 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link