Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

def a call everything neo-liberalism or late-capitalism guy

his big subject seems to be the grating nature of so much "left" discourse on the internet. i think the things he has to say about this are good and i appreciate the term "critique drift."

sometimes i wonder what the stakes are in that stuff though. like, was there a time when most people involved in political discussion didn't wield their ideology as an accessory, making the same banal points over and over and looking for places to grind their axe? twitter might just be like the house/cocktail parties of old, except now we're all locked in there forever.

he is a grating leftist on the internet tho i mean

hes if anything more grating than most online leftists

matt bruenig >>> freddie imo

Here's an example of a worthwhile subject that he reduces to banality.

he deserves his own thread or another thread. Let's stop discussing him here.

instead of endlessly & pointlessly dissecting their own culture and occasionally raising some vague strawman of neoliberals to strawman more leftists should just ignore all other leftists & argue with economists and liberals to their right straight up. way more entertaining & elucidating than the nth performance of a white dude in a LA grad program wondering if intersectionality is hindering "worker power" or whatever. also they should stop arguing with libertarians so much imo, that's my 1 prob with matt bruenig. like its ok to poke fun at them sometimes but their presence on twitter is disproportionate

i heard TNC on npr yesterday, i love listening to him speak so much. there was one seemingly awkward moment where terry gross asked him "did you hit your children" but i guess thats in the book and what he had to say about it was super interesting

admittedly I had to look up "intersectionality"

Neoliberalism is conservatism with a gay pride face.

xp- just now?

Yeah. It's one of those terms whose definition I can guess from how the world looks.

he deserves his own thread or another thread. Let's stop discussing him here.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:11 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i really don't think he does, but yes

instead of endlessly & pointlessly dissecting their own culture and occasionally raising some vague strawman of neoliberals to strawman more leftists should just ignore all other leftists & argue with economists and liberals to their right straight up.

― flopson, Tuesday, July 14, 2015 5:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

having to fight w economists all day is def the appropriate punishment

lol

his big subject seems to be the grating nature of so much "left" discourse on the internet. i think the things he has to say about this are good and i appreciate the term "critique drift."

― Treeship, Tuesday, July 14, 2015 8:57 PM (1 hour ago)

sometimes i'll read something of his and go "yeah, that's true" but i also kind of feel like he inflates the problem way way beyond its importance. i mean snotty clickbait-y "left" takes on everything are annoying, but the percentage of the u.s. population that actually pays attention to that stuff has to be beyond miniscule. i don't even think most self-described liberals care about the kind of infighting FDB seems to obsess over.

Yeah idk. I hear a lot of liberal discussions on the internet and irl that feel like people are reading off a script and it makes me uncomfortable, even when I largely agree with them. But absent the language of internet social justice culture, these people would probably just adopt other cliches.

cliches are... the ultimate truth a glimpse inside my twitter drafts

sometimes i'll read something of his and go "yeah, that's true" but i also kind of feel like he inflates the problem way way beyond its importance. i mean snotty clickbait-y "left" takes on everything are annoying, but the percentage of the u.s. population that actually pays attention to that stuff has to be beyond miniscule. i don't even think most self-described liberals care about the kind of infighting FDB seems to obsess over.

Don't forget he's also a TA and professional grad student, so the joke about academia applies 100% - "the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so low."

admittedly I had to look up "intersectionality"

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 21:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

wow

Gender studies and social theory aren't my specialties, and then there's my well-documented suspicion of jargon.

Me, I like writing

yeah, i know, that's why all your posts are 8000 words long

admittedly I had to look up "intersectionality"

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 21:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

wow

― supreme problematics (D-40), Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:12 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

obvs not a big consumer of social justice social networking

or… ilx… somehow

who is social justice -- have I met him

It's hard not to, v outgoing

Btw I actually hear "intersectional" is on the way out

what's it being replaced with? the return of baggy pants?

the best way out of an intersection is to exit the vehicle on foot and toss the keys to a beaming child

people who drive are savages imo

privilege speaking

more leftists should just ignore all other leftists & argue with economists and liberals to their right straight up

actually talked about this with a socialist poli sci prof over the weekend & he suggested that while arguing with liberals is fun af its "as much a fool's errand as arguing with anyone to the right of clinton"

it cant be more of a fools errand than arguing with leftists

http://gawker.com/making-peace-with-the-chaos-an-interview-with-ta-nehis-1717839272

someone talk to me abt why ppl are saying "bodies" as in "black bodies" instead of "people"

history of objectification

it seems like just another hopelessly awkward academic construct?

the the only time its used is in the context of oppression you dont need to shoehorn odd shorthand for the oppression in there when youre already talking about the thing

also clearly oppressors throughout the ages have been very interested in their targets as psychological beings too as thats one of the many tools of oppression

^all this, but also, it's a stylistic affectation

resonates w/ abhorrence at control of women's bodies, highlights unsavory implications wrt slavery and male violence, slight creepfactor

the mainstreaming of academic language is one of the worst things about online

http://i.imgur.com/P9JnBBP.png

good convo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl1dc2cEJfs

just bought the book maybe i will read it even

someone talk to me abt why ppl are saying "bodies" as in "black bodies" instead of "people"

― lag∞n, Wednesday, July 15, 2015 3:28 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also seen this as "trans bodies," "queer bodies," etc--was explained to me that "bodies" *centers* the dehumanization of the subject

"female bodies"

i think this approach doesnt really "get" how language works but i cld be wrong

i know you already saw it since you linked to the article, but

Q:There are two terms invoked constantly throughout the book: “body” and “plunder.” There is a physicality to both, a totality in each when you use them, that is terrifying. I’m interested in this idea of choosing the word “black body” as opposed to saying, “the black mind” or “the black soul.”

A: I think the body is the ultimate thing. The soul and mind are part of the body. I don’t think there is anything outside of that. Your physical self is who you are. Some people feel that that is reductionist, but I don’t think it is. It’s just true.

Q: It’s your vessel.

A: But not even your vessel. It’s the thing. The body is the mind. The mind is housed, as far as we know, within an organ—the brain. The brain is part of the body. And when people speak about the soul, they are speaking about certain sensations that they feel as a result of nerves and other organ systems within the body. For me specifically, not really coming out of a religious tradition, that’s how I understand black people. It very much clarifies for me the idea of physical violence. There is a tradition within black America, that I quarrel with, that says: They can do things to our body, but they can’t really trap our minds. I disagree with that. Every assault upon the body is, in fact, also an assault upon the mind. I don’t think there is any way to get away from that.