Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

[url=http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/07/13/aimer-ce-nest-pas-se-regarder-lun-lautre-cest-regarder-ensemble-dans-la-meme-direction/]A mild demurral[url] by our friend. He's right about some of the wooly, unexamined comparisons some writers have lavished on TNC but this part pissed me off

The way people talk about Coates has always seemed like reciting the catechism, to me, and I’m not Catholic. Me, I like writing. And Coates is a good writer — practiced, perceptive, frequently quite funny. Like a lot of strong writers, he tends to stay in a particular register, and I often wish that he would branch out a little more, that he’d subvert the style that has won him the audience that discusses him in such sacramental tones. But if you’ve got a good horse, you might as well ride.

Why would he expect TNC (or any writer) to "subvert the style"? How do you "subvert" a style?

woops

I’ll read Between the World and Me, with interest, and with the kind of sympathetic dedication that I try to bring to every book I read. I imagine I’ll like it. If I think it’s good, I’m going to say that it’s good, with enthusiasm. What I won’t do is try to outdo others with my praise.

* frowns, crosses arms, sits down *

Yeah that seems like a dumb/meaningless criticism and I usually like frederik the bore as some call him.

I agree with his critique of the praisers, but TNC is under no obligation to mess with his style for the sake of it

he could've just said "TNC is OK and sometimes very good."

DeBoer often seems unduly anxious about what he thinks other people think he's supposed to think, like with his recent post on the tyranny of poptimism.

Why would he expect TNC (or any writer) to "subvert the style"? How do you "subvert" a style?

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, July 13, 2015 12:36 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seems like the writing workshop criticism the jealous student gives the talented one: "Sure she's great at writing in that
style, but why doesn't she try writing in a different style?"

I’ll read Between the World and Me, with interest, and with the kind of sympathetic dedication that I try to bring to every book I read. I imagine I’ll like it. If I think it’s good, I’m going to say that it’s good, with enthusiasm. What I won’t do is try to outdo others with my praise.

wow this guy sounds really excellent at reading, I'm impressed

It's okay!

i've been making the coates/baldwin comparison for some time now. not so much about quality or whatever as just in terms of genre and desired effect. essayistic, personal, embodied meditation on race as lived and felt. there's a very small set of writers in that register and shooting to do that thing, so the baldwin comparison feels very natural. especially so in the nature of what he's packing into the book as opposed to his more purely-historical writing.

Just heard a little bit of Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" interviewing him on NPR about the book. She was just asking him about his West Baltimore middle school days and the rules he followed then (re walking with a group and never by himself to school; never let yourself be disrespected or yelled at without responding, even by a schoolteacher...)

some of my best friends presidents are black

DeBoer often seems unduly anxious about what he thinks other people think he's supposed to think, like with his recent post on the tyranny of poptimism.

― Treeship, Monday, July 13, 2015 5:00 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i've found this to be common among leftists working in universities

I thin he's responding (poorly) to my least favorite thing about contemporary culture: the pressurized atmosphere in which we feel compelled (through a constant exposure to opinions about things) to strengthen/defend/explain our own. that's why it feels so Zen these days to allow yourself to not form an opinion or "take" on things.

like, we can't even just read and enjoy or discuss Coates' writing. now we have to decide if he's the new Baldwin. everything goes to 11 instantly! feeling old I guess.

basically all culture has become sports talk radio.

Nah. He just doesn't like this thing as much as some other people like this thing and needs to develop a sophisticated conspiracy theory about why different people don't have his precise tastes.

when and why did deBoer become a thing? I realize I posted something he wrote, so I'm part of the problem.

xxp I hear you caller

i first came across him via internecine hot take warfare blog posts, have been mystified that he's gotten wider traction, but Not Ever Shutting Up appears to have helped make that happen

relentlessly staking out contrarian opinions helps too.

right, Not Ever Shutting Up That Everyone Else is Wrong is click gold

He's smart sometimes but other times speaks from a place of total ignorance but I think that is actually helping him because the incentives are currently geared toward constant production. Better to turn in lots of takes, some of which are otm, than picking and choosing from what you know.

def a call everything neo-liberalism or late-capitalism guy

his big subject seems to be the grating nature of so much "left" discourse on the internet. i think the things he has to say about this are good and i appreciate the term "critique drift."

sometimes i wonder what the stakes are in that stuff though. like, was there a time when most people involved in political discussion didn't wield their ideology as an accessory, making the same banal points over and over and looking for places to grind their axe? twitter might just be like the house/cocktail parties of old, except now we're all locked in there forever.

he is a grating leftist on the internet tho i mean

hes if anything more grating than most online leftists

matt bruenig >>> freddie imo

Here's an example of a worthwhile subject that he reduces to banality.

he deserves his own thread or another thread. Let's stop discussing him here.

instead of endlessly & pointlessly dissecting their own culture and occasionally raising some vague strawman of neoliberals to strawman more leftists should just ignore all other leftists & argue with economists and liberals to their right straight up. way more entertaining & elucidating than the nth performance of a white dude in a LA grad program wondering if intersectionality is hindering "worker power" or whatever. also they should stop arguing with libertarians so much imo, that's my 1 prob with matt bruenig. like its ok to poke fun at them sometimes but their presence on twitter is disproportionate

i heard TNC on npr yesterday, i love listening to him speak so much. there was one seemingly awkward moment where terry gross asked him "did you hit your children" but i guess thats in the book and what he had to say about it was super interesting

admittedly I had to look up "intersectionality"

Neoliberalism is conservatism with a gay pride face.

xp- just now?

Yeah. It's one of those terms whose definition I can guess from how the world looks.

he deserves his own thread or another thread. Let's stop discussing him here.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:11 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i really don't think he does, but yes

instead of endlessly & pointlessly dissecting their own culture and occasionally raising some vague strawman of neoliberals to strawman more leftists should just ignore all other leftists & argue with economists and liberals to their right straight up.

― flopson, Tuesday, July 14, 2015 5:14 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

having to fight w economists all day is def the appropriate punishment

lol

his big subject seems to be the grating nature of so much "left" discourse on the internet. i think the things he has to say about this are good and i appreciate the term "critique drift."

― Treeship, Tuesday, July 14, 2015 8:57 PM (1 hour ago)

sometimes i'll read something of his and go "yeah, that's true" but i also kind of feel like he inflates the problem way way beyond its importance. i mean snotty clickbait-y "left" takes on everything are annoying, but the percentage of the u.s. population that actually pays attention to that stuff has to be beyond miniscule. i don't even think most self-described liberals care about the kind of infighting FDB seems to obsess over.

Yeah idk. I hear a lot of liberal discussions on the internet and irl that feel like people are reading off a script and it makes me uncomfortable, even when I largely agree with them. But absent the language of internet social justice culture, these people would probably just adopt other cliches.

cliches are... the ultimate truth a glimpse inside my twitter drafts

sometimes i'll read something of his and go "yeah, that's true" but i also kind of feel like he inflates the problem way way beyond its importance. i mean snotty clickbait-y "left" takes on everything are annoying, but the percentage of the u.s. population that actually pays attention to that stuff has to be beyond miniscule. i don't even think most self-described liberals care about the kind of infighting FDB seems to obsess over.

Don't forget he's also a TA and professional grad student, so the joke about academia applies 100% - "the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so low."

admittedly I had to look up "intersectionality"

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 21:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

wow

Gender studies and social theory aren't my specialties, and then there's my well-documented suspicion of jargon.

Me, I like writing

yeah, i know, that's why all your posts are 8000 words long

admittedly I had to look up "intersectionality"

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 21:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

wow

― supreme problematics (D-40), Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:12 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

obvs not a big consumer of social justice social networking

or… ilx… somehow