a clown car full of millionaires: the 2016 presidential primary thread

But this line of thinking is a little too much like a double agent trying to convince a triple agent that he's actually a quadruple agent, and that way lies madness.

this is 47th dimension chess, where you look up from your eternal concentration and find that your opponent is actually yourself

A new poll shows Sanders, a self-described "democratic socialist," winning 33 percent of likely participants in the Iowa Democratic caucus, while 52 percent said they would vote for Clinton if the Democratic caucus was held today.

The poll was conducted by Quinnipiac University, which surveyed 761 likely Iowa Democratic caucus participants from June 20-29, with a margin of error of 3.6 percentage points.

Sanders still has a long way to go to catch up to Clinton. However, Thursday's poll shows he has more than doubled his support from a May 7 Quinnipiac survey that showed him polling at only 15 percent to Clinton's 60 percent among caucus-goers. Thursday's poll shows the Vermont progressive having particular appeal among participants who call themselves very liberal, who chose him 47-43 percent over Clinton.

Dem primary base has moved left, as evidenced by the NYT piece about how Dem funding has shifted left as well

Polarization: it's what's for dinner.

For more Trump fun, see

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=357640

"The Trump bubble is what you get when a significant part of the GOP is tired of being lied to and screwed over. They want to be heard and they want to see their values (in this case anger, which is an emotion not a value but it's a reasonable stand in at this point) reflected in a candidate.

"The mostly mealy mouthed response to the recent Supreme Court ruling from most GOP candidates does not match the anger a lot of conservatives are feeling.

"There's almost no recognition by candidates that people feel something important about America is slipping away. They aren't seeing that being acknowledged by Jeb, Marco or even Walker."

This sort of through-the-looking-glass perspective is instructive. Ace of Spades and his commentariat typify the sort of conservative who feels the Republican Party is too lefty-squishy, and is not doing enough to fight Obama.

Reading there is an interesting inverse of reading here, and seeing e.g. Morbs criticizing Obama and Hillary for being insufficiently liberal.

In any case, people (left or right) who view electoral politics as primarily entertainment are obliged to be grateful for Trump in all his Trumpiness.

that site is bizarre. not sure why they call Trump a liberal

Left of Goldwater.

is he though?

it's prob fair to say trump isn't a coherent political anything

comments on that site are a p awesome pic of how fractured and dispirited the GOP is, there's no way they're gonna win this or unify behind anybody

sanders is a dead end, i love bernie but he won't win the nomination and honestly in another universe when it's bush v sanders there is no way old man bernie would win

sanders votes are protest votes against Hillary, everybody knows that (including Hillary)

bernie sanders, the angsty teenage facebook macro who became a person

corporations are bad! i'm gonna stopp.. all the.. corporations!

absolutely, which is why it is weird seeing the "can bernie do it?" pieces floating around

xp

ShaMo: "there's no way they're gonna win this or unify behind anybody."

Yep. Exactly.

As a Democrat I am buoyed by this knowledge, but I am also simultaneously sad that we don't have a better choice of candidates to take advantage of that fractured and dispirited Republican situation.

Dems don't have a deep bench of rockstar governors (altho personally I would vote for Jerry Brown in a heartbeat), and none of the high profile Senate people are ready to run, is the thing. It is kinda funny that nobody gaf about Biden.

xp ace of spades site is especially anti-establishment, though
to use ymp's analogy, through the looking glass, it's roughly in morbs's general area of the political disappointment & disgust with DC/party spectrum
i.e. not necessarily typical of gop (or primary voters) in general
but it's def reflective of significant contingent on the right

"I have said for years now that it will be the GOP who gives us amnesty, who gives us more unfettered spending, who will protect socialist healthcare and it will be the GOP who will ultimately give us freedom killing gun restrictions.

As the dems moved to be far leftists, the GOP moved well left of center. The country is not there though, so the GOP lies about who they are during elections and we continue to move leftward. Its why I don't vote in federal elections anymore, I don't believe them."

(from the link)

Biden found his level as veep. His only job now is to smile, be personable to random infants and foreign leaders, and try to contain his bumptiousness enough to avoid public gaffes. Hillary should pick him for veep, too.

haha that would be perfect

the new George Clinton!

the GOP moved well left of center. The country is not there though

I really don't grasp this -- are there people who authentically think, as a matter of empirical fact, that most of the country is to the right of the Republican party?

Are there liberal Democrats who actually think MOST PEOPLE are liberal Democrats?

"His only job now is to smile, be personable to random infants" - I would like this job, where do I sign up, thxbye

eephus, the thesis is not that most people are tea partiers. The thesis is that there would be ENOUGH votes if only the GOP candidate would go Full Metal Tea and Embrace the Base. Taking such a principled stand would fire up a silent majority of disaffected angry white guys who would carry said candidate to victory. Because the problem (on this view) is that the GOP keeps nominating milquetoast moderates like Romney who fail to motivate the TruCon base.

To which I say, fine: bring it, please. Bring the Confederate remembrance bills, mandatory school prayer, EPA elimination proposals, mandatory gun ownership, National Reagan-Worship Day. Bring it all.

Let's have that talking point killed for good.

tbf it looks like the GOP is nearing that point

sanders votes are protest votes against Hillary, everybody knows that (including Hillary)

absolutely, which is why it is weird seeing the "can bernie do it?" pieces floating around

Because political journalists are utterly cynical flecks of ambulatory feces who will write literally anything in order to get that daily byline and the clicks and payment that come with it.

Trump used to be a registered Dem IIRC, but yeah, his ideology is opportunism and spotlight hogging.

Let's have that talking point killed for good.

This never happens!

Also from the blog http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ycdrTkaUfGo/U7wACu4SJgI/AAAAAAAAAMs/eI_zEWq3avs/s1600/a_aif-i-were-ted-cruz2.jpg

I love that this guy thinks the plan would be additive.

bernie sanders, the angsty teenage facebook macro who became a person

corporations are bad! i'm gonna stopp.. all the.. corporations!

― Nobody ever knows anything. (sleepingbag), Thursday, July 2, 2015 10:39 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, because throwing away one's moral compass and not pushing back against corporate rights is just so mature.

honestly the funniest thing about that comic is the implication that the Founding Fathers all got along and shared ideologies, goals, etc.

all mythical dads do!

also cabinet members apparently have the authority to abolish departments established by Congress. who knew!

political journalists are utterly cynical flecks of ambulatory feces who will write literally anything

beat me to it.

you always have the frontrunner (who nobody has voted for yet) to eat out all the corporations, sleepingbag.

lol xp

i feel like so much of politics is basically driven by mass daddy issues. also i feel like scott walker's appeal and part of the reason he has money backing him whereas the other hard-right candidates are sinking is bcz he basically looks and acts like the beta guy / wingman / attack dog in the fraternity who will literally do anything the other guys tell him to. this is incredibly appealing to "powerful" male egos.

Bring the Confederate remembrance bills, mandatory school prayer, EPA elimination proposals, mandatory gun ownership, National Reagan-Worship Day. Bring it all.

tbf to aos, that crew of bloggers are genuine limited-gov conservatives (aos is atheist small-l libertarian, one of the bloggers is gay)
they loathe someone like huckabee
there are socons among the commenters, but that's not really the focus of this particular contingent of the right (though concern about 'religious liberty' is)

of course, there are trucons of other stripes elsewhere

bernie sanders, the angsty teenage facebook macro who became a person

corporations are bad! i'm gonna stopp.. all the.. corporations!

― Nobody ever knows anything. (sleepingbag), Thursday, July 2, 2015 10:39 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, because throwing away one's moral compass and not pushing back against corporate rights is just so mature.

― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:24 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^This. HRC's main contributors are from the same financial industry than ran itself with all the self-discipline of a juvenile playing hooky who came crying home to the gov't when they ran out of money.

i just get very 😴😴 re: anyone with such a basic, preaching to the choir, 'no-compromises' message that is undoubtedly going to fall on the deaf ears of its recipients. like, that's not how things actually change, that's not how politics works...

good 4 you

wake me up when dude is president dogg

One of the many ways in which politics works is how a threat from your flank, which could mean anything from drawing away voters or voters staying home, forces candidates to appease this flank.

wake me up when dude is president dogg

― Nobody ever knows anything. (sleepingbag), Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:59 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm not a dogg

you're very obviously the simplistic thinker here

HRC's main contributors are from the same financial industry

this is not entirely true btw.

NYT: Democrats now get far less money from Wall Street, military contractors, health care companies and other industries that for decades ladled out cash more evenly to both parties, according to a New York Times analysis of data collected by the Center for Responsive Politics, a watchdog group. And the party now relies far more on constituencies that have achieved new clout in the era of “super PACs” and carefully targeted digital fund-raising... Almost two-thirds of money from investment banks and three-quarters of donations from credit card companies and lenders now flow to Republicans, and donations from hedge fund and private equity executives were a significant source of cash for Republican super PACs during the 2012 election cycle.

same article notes that: Unlike Mr. Obama, her campaign is aggressively raising money from business PACs, according to two Clinton fund-raisers. And Mrs. Clinton, like the Republicans who wish to run against her, has not yet pledged to voluntarily disclose the names of her bundlers.

so she kinda wants that money, but it isn't necessarily flowing to her, and she's highly conscious of the fact that she has to walk a fine line to get both the liberal bundling donors and the Wall Street cash.

Drash: fair point. I don't intend to say AoS is the whole dextrosphere - just that those attitudes are out there.

And at the same time, Οὖτις is correct that the existence of those attitudes speaks to the degree of fractiousness and intramural animosity on the right.

Good thing the left doesn't have the same problem, right?

Uh, right, guys?

[nervous laughter]

i just hope president christie doesn't make weed illegal here again, gawrsh...

Pointing out that "almost 2/3 of money" goes to Republicans means that a majority of financial industry money goes to the congressional majority. Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and JPMorgan Chase are in her top 5 contributors for 17 years. That is not counting the PACs and secret money that has yet to be voluntarily disclosed. Democrats are feeding from the same trough as republicans.

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cycle=Career&cid=N00000019

they are but they're getting less in general - which is significant, and is one of the reasons she's leaning left in the primaries, because she needs to make up that funding shortfall from non-Wall Street contributors - and without full disclosure there's no way to authoritatively say who Hilldog's "main contributors" are for her prez campaign.

Don't get me wrong, I have zero faith in Hilary's anti-corporate platitudes precisely because of her deep ties to the financial industry, but she's on an altered playing field at the moment.

also that 17 years thing is misleading given that she hasn't been raising money to run for office between the time she left the Senate and declared her Prez candidacy, or am I misreading something...? How could she be raising money from PACs as Secretary of State when she wasn't running for anything?

webb's in

woop woop