A New Thread fot the Current Israel/Palestine/Lebanon mess

Reminds me of pathetic Walter Mondale accusing Reagan of being "soft on Communism" for hinting at arms-control talks with Gorby.

You can barely see the edge of the jacket in this picture; there's a video floating around somewhere of her seated at a table and it really looks like she showed up wearing AND1 gear.

Reading that story about the Democratic outcry doesn't do good things for my blood pressure. I really have to stop checking this thread... but then where will I turn for my Condi roffles?

People we have contacted in Israel keep talking about Israel having some surprises. We already are surprised by the amount of time between the initiation of the air attack and the initiation of a major ground offensive. If the Israelis have more surprises waiting, it will be interesting to see what they are. However, at this point, unless Israel wants to abandon the goal of rendering Hezbollah harmless for an extended period of time, it would seem to us that a massive raid in force, followed by destruction of infrastructure in detail, followed by withdrawal, is the most realistic option remaining.

One other possible explanation for events (and perhaps this is the surprise) is that Israel has been taken aback by Hezbollah's abilities and resilience, and that the Israelis are not certain they can attain their political ends militarily. In other words, the cost of imposing defeat on Hezbollah might be seen as so high, or perhaps unattainable, that the outcome of the war must be something of a stalemate. If that is the case, the balance of power in the region has shifted dramatically and Hezbollah has, in fact, won a victory. Since we do not think Israel will concede that point, we continue to await Israel's move.

We have been told to expect surprises in how Israel does this. We agree fully: We are surprised. We see the Hezbollah plan and it is unfolding -- not as well as it might have hoped, but not that poorly either. We await the Israeli solution to the problem posed by Hezbollah. There will be at least one clear criterion for victory or defeat on both sides. If Hezbollah continues to attack Haifa and other major cities without Israel being able to stop it, or it halts those attacks only after a diplomatic compromise, Hezbollah would have achieved its strategic goal and Israel would have lost. If Israel can end the attacks without making political concessions, Israel would have won. At a certain point, it is as simple as that.

The IDF hopes to create a "security zone" in southern Lebanon until an international force arrives.

Yes, this sort of thing has worked terrifically for Israel in the past.

I'm sure the UN thing was an "accident".

Well, there's the rub.

I like how Palestine is now keen to give the Israeli prisoner back. They said they had to consult the higher ups in Hamas before they could, though they've apparently wanted to for a while. Bizarre.

-- Tracey Hand (tracerhan...), July 25th, 2006.

This is one of the more perplexing memes that's started circulating since the current crisis began. Can the Israeli-Lebanese war really be said to have been "going on" in any real sense for the last 6 years?

it's called mossad, look into it.

Can the Israeli-Lebanese war really be said to have been "going on" in any real sense for the last 6 years?

it's called korea, look into it.

to be honest, i'm not sure i want to hear people complaining about having had to "sleep on concrete," given that the poor Lebanese are having their country thrown back decades. somehow i don't think that's what the commentators have in mind, though. amazing how hateful people are, really.

-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), July 25th, 2006.

yes, israel totally deliberately targetted the UN. duh.

abbadavid it's not a "meme" that hezbollah and israel have not had peace for at least 35 years .. there have been countless little firefights and border incursions over the years, by BOTH sides, and none of them have led to wholesale bombing campaigns before

my dad says it's all about sharon - olmert has to prove he's sharon now; if sharon were still PM none of this would have been "necessary;" it sounds just stupid and macho enough to be right

Even as the fighting continues and the civilian casualties mount in Lebanon, sentiment in Congress is overwhelmingly on Israel's side. Last week, the House passed a resolution, 410 to 8, that went even beyond the Bush administration in supporting for Israel in its battle with Hezbollah militants.

A bid by the four House lawmakers of Lebanese descent to add language urging restraint against civilian targets was rejected in negotiations. The resolution's only nod to those caught in the crossfire came in a recognition of "Israel's longstanding commitment to minimizing civilian loss" and an expression of condolences -- in the last sentence of a three-page document -- "to all innocent victims of recent violence in Israel, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories."

That's nothing ... who is speaking on behalf of Hezbollah in these "cease-fire negotiations"? While the EU and UN are trying to negotiate an end to hostilities, Nasrallah is threatening further escalations.

What kind of motive might Israel have for deliberately
attacking the UN? I mean, the UN is generally so fatous,
corrupt and biased against Israel, I wouldn't blame them
for doing so. I'm kidding (mostly). But anyway, do you
really believe Israel is THAT foolhardy?

Hstencil, do you really think that Mossad could destroy
or severely damage Hezbollah through strictly using
clandestine measures? Because it seems to me, if that
were true, Israel would have already gone that route and
foregone a bombing campasign and invasion, both extremely
costly in the court of public opinion.

I mean seriously HOW can this be a mistake?!? They KNEW specifically where the UN observers were, they have highly accurate targeting systems, etc.

as for the other possibilty, that it wasn't a mistake, i won't countenance it, for two reasons: 1) most things like this that happen, anywhere, but especially in wars, are the result of fuck-ups rather than devious plans but 2) i just don't even want to dwell on that possibility because it's too cynical

I mean, witness this entire campaign for chrissakes.

as for why the UN are still there - they're OBSERVERS, its the UN's job to try to maintain a peaceful, non-partisan presence in warzone situations where there are likely to be abuses, humanitarian crises, etc.

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Anyway, one of the things that struck me about this book was just
how common friendly-fire casualties were. They certainly weren't
isolated incidents; they were a constant threat. I don't believe
that forty years of technological advances have changed the
problem, especially since it's largely a matter of human error.

How can we, in good faith, forbid Israel to make any
mistakes in the course of their actions?
Can anyone imagine a 100% perfect campaign?
No mistakes at all? Because that's what some are demanding
Israel to do.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but it's so frustrating to see
such a senseless disaster play out. In the final analysis,
the reasons to continue the violence are nonsense, Lewis Carroll, gobbledygook.

THERE'S a warped part of me that longs to see the Middle East crisis continue, just to see more of Condoleezza Rice on television.

Older women often have an allure younger ones can't compete with. Condi's immaculately tailored suits hint at the hot, gym-honed hard body underneath and her calm air of omnipotent authority is irrestistible. But behind the cool gaze and controlled exterior is a roiling mess of female sexuality. If a guy pressed the right buttons, you know she'd blow his mind.

Her success proves she knows just how to handle men and get the better of them. Guys can't resist powerful women; we always harbour a desire to get under their skins and bring them down a peg or two. I don't know if there's one out there who's a match for her. If Condi's still single, it's because she never met anyone man enough to take her on.

-- Nirpal Dhaliwal, The Evening Standard (London), July 26, 2006, First edition

"I'm gunna tear you apart...

...and your friend, too!"