THE GAME OF THRONES/ASOIAF SPOILER THREAD (WARNING: SPOILERS)

Dorne was pretty silly in the books too.

So I'm wondering if show Doran has secret agenda like book Doran. Something nasty's gotta happen in the finale after everything wrapping up so neatly.

I have to be the one of the very few people who was pretty into the Iron Islands kingsmoot madness and found everything to do with Dorne a real snooze. The show is essentially paying Dorne lipservice - we went to Dorne because the books do, but there's nothing to be found there. Doran didn't do enough philosophizing and the rebellion of the sand snakes was laughably inept for more or less the same reason- there just wasn't enough screentime. The whole story was rushed to the point of incoherence. I actually think the Iron Islands could have used the same amount of time more effectively. But who knows- the show and the books both have the same problems at this point - a season where very little happens compared to the neverending twists of the past few, and the assumption that you will care about the fate of new characters who have heretofore had little or nothing to do with the story so far.

there just wasn't enough screentime.

Yeah, and since every scene from the book, when translated to the show, will have to compete teh bewbs, the time crunch for story development gets compounded.

as far as the iron islands go, euron greyjoy has been cast for season 6, but what the show, or indeed grrm, are planning to do with him is a mystery to me. and casting someone sadly kills this bizarre theory: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/253zbx/

Hey you never know, maybe they're just re-casting Daario again.

Sparkle Motion fwiw I agree the Iron Islands stuff gets an unfair rap.

one of the things I've enjoyed overall is the various takes on religious fanaticism. Also interesting is thus far only the red god seems to have the true religion. I don't think any of the other gods have come through for anybody, at least to my recollection.

The Many-faced God seems to be doing pretty well

The Old Gods have basically turned Bran into the NSA by giving him access to a wide-ranging "CC Tree V network" right

lol @ CC Tree V

TreeSPAN

On a similar track, I wonder how much of a connection some of these families have to their sigils. The Starks obviously have a bond with dire wolves and Targs with Dragons, but do the Lannisters have some psychic connection to lions? can Greyjoys summon krakens?

¡proper book spoilers! so much for the mystery of ramsay's letter.

jon snow dies

― diamonddave85, Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:54 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn

I suppose I no longer care about the differences between book and show but fuuuuuuuuck seeing stannis and myrcella go was p surprising

lol, i am glad i avoided ever opening this thread until now; love the first post.

so tell me what's different in the 10th episode than in the books?
and did mama stark actually come back as a zombie?

yea she does and honestly it's kinda dumb I'm glad it didn't end up in the show

stannis death is non-book (thus far, and when it comes i don't think it will be brienne delivering it for various reasons)

Lady Stark/Stoneheart stuff sounded like a real highlight to me.

In the books I was super convinced snow would warg into his wolf before death and be conserved there till red lady does something restorative to him. There was telegraphing iirc with shortly before the murder some wildling dude showing up and warging conspicuously. Show rly makes it look graveyard final but I still bet on the melisandre get out of hell free card.

The mystery of Jon's parents hangs over the books pretty heavily which is why he can't actually die. Him, tyrion and dany felt like the unkillable characters

my guess on books vs show fwiw: in the books jon wargs into his wolf and then ends up resurrected as a human again (melisandre has been seeing jon in her visions and at one point sees a man who becomes a wolf who becomes a man again) but in the show they are just going to streamline and skip the wolf part

i think they drew out the last shot of his death to mess with book ppl waiting for him to say "ghost"

Roberto yes that's exactly what I think they'll do in the show

yeah, once i saw that Melisandre was back at Castle Black, I figured she would resurrect him

It doesn't seem that there is any good reason to kill Jon off entirely. All the other major character deaths were interesting because of how everyone had to react and the new dynamics that filled the void. Not enough story elements around Jon get disturbed with his death. He's on a much longer arc that I believe will continue with him back in the picture at some point.

~jon snow~ is definitely dead yup yup. long live azor ahai hm hm...

"we said jon snow was dead... we didn't say jon snow wolf creature was dead"

so if he is brought back to life would he still be bound to the Night's Watch?

he's supposedly a more powerful worger than Bran, yet we've seen little evidence of that. Maybe this plot point forces him to step up his body riding skills

did he ever worg in the show

nope

he's a dragon now

nice

The showrunners claimed that Stannis is going to burn Shireen in the books as well. How is he going to do that, if he dies outside of Winterfell? Shireen is still at the wall, right? And what was the burning about, if he was going to lose the battle anyway? And where is Theon and Sansa supposed to go if there's no army outside? And how did Melisandre get to the wall so quickly? And...

This whole show is such an incoherent mess. I don't think GRRM should be sad that the show is getting ahead of the books, because they have proved that they are incapable of telling any kind of coherent story.

Stop pacing

To my surprise I'm coming around to the stannis lives pov a little bit

How is he going to do that, if he dies outside of Winterfell?

he's...probably gonna do that under different circumstances...because the books will play out differently, i'm not sure what the issue is here

And how did Melisandre get to the wall so quickly?

considerable periods of time pass between certain episodes! some resume immediately like the s3 finale after the red wedding but usually it's anywhere from a few days to a month

god the cersei walk of shame thing was grueling to watch. I knew it was gonna happen, but they really nailed it.

Unless Stannis survives the battle, I don't see how he can burn Shireen. So SPOILER, I guess... And wasn't Melisandre at the camp in the beginning of the episode, or did I get that wrong? (I don't think that much time happened after Shireen burned. That kinda makes no sense.)

*sigh* relentless plausibility policing in genre fiction is a fool's errand, i'm not sure why this is so bothersome

also...survives what battle? as far as the books have gone there hasn't been a battle between stannis and the boltons yet. he could summon for his wife and kid and sacrifice her and then die in battle or who knows what? we'll find out when the books come out! a zillion things could happen. they are now two entirely distinct entities that share characters, basically.

http://blog.codinghorror.com/content/images/uploads/2011/09/6a0120a85dcdae970b017616b267ca970c-pi.jpg

Oh come on slothrop. If pointing out immense plotholes is a pointless waste of time, then what is making up bullshit defenses of them?

*sigh* relentless plausibility policing in genre fiction is a fool's errand, i'm not sure why this is so bothersome

when you're creating a world out of whole cloth internal consistency and verisimilitude are all the more important! yr ability to sell "dragons" or "zombies" to the reader hinges in part on the readers ability to accept as true the stuff that she can relate to her own real-world experience or knowledge

iow "who cares how this implausible thing happened when there's MAGIC in the world??" is confusing categories of plausibility

This is not a mystery novel. we don't need to know how fast melisandre rode her horse and compare it to how long a raven with medium wingspan takes to fly from Winterfell to the Wall on a warm day.

xxxp didn't think pointing out how an adaptation and its source material have diverged (and will continue to do so) is inherently bullshit - or a defense, really, just a statement - but i also don't wish to turn this into a tete-a-tete, we can agree to disagree

This is not a mystery novel. we don't need to know how fast melisandre rode her horse and compare it to how long a raven with medium wingspan takes to fly from Winterfell to the Wall on a warm day.

Is that raven from Essos or Westeros?

max agreed that you need to stick to the internal logic of a fictional universe as it's established, but there's a question of degree i guess?

something that would be worth pointing out, by contrast, is that it seemed like stannis went from father of the year to child-burner in what didn't seem like a ton of time, bc it relates to the inherent nature of a character as it was established and played out - those sort of inconsistencies are what bothers me, when they occur.