"The Wire" on HBO

that's what people are saying is the problem no?

cops at the top and dealers at the top are both shown to be blatant careerists, but the latter are the ones shown murdering people to get what they want. which side do you think is being portrayed in the more sympathetic light there.

the dealers exist in a universe where murder or violence of one's professional rivals is an active and constant currency, like that's simply a fact of organized crime. the cops...do not, but they often do things that, considering the universe they operate in, are figuratively as ruthless if not literally

Non-figurative murder and violence is a fact of cop life in a way that seems in retrospect to have been played down in this show, was the original criticism

so now we're inching towards the implication that cops don't murder criminal suspects eh

xxp

because they operate in a universe where that just doesn't happen?

The cops murdering people at the rate of a top drug dealer would turn the whole thing into some sub-House of Cards nonsense. The stupid bureacracy has plenty of deaths on their conscience, including Orlando, Wallace, Frank Zobotka, etc.

we're inching towards the implication that cops don't murder criminal suspects eh

what the hell?? when did anyone say that? how do you think that the show is literally saying or implying that?

what wins is saying is fair, i just don't think that fact - while it is a shortcoming - inherently damns the show to being viewed in any way as blatantly "pro-cop"

I'm not damning it, it's a good show. the cops are m/l the good guys in it.

Equality of corruption doesn't result in equality of body count - that's not a flaw in the show, I feel.

the dealers exist in a universe where murder or violence of one's professional rivals is an active and constant currency, like that's simply a fact of organized crime. the cops...do not, but they often do things that, considering the universe they operate in, are figuratively as ruthless if not literally

― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:06 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^

politicians and ranking cops can do more damage with the stroke of a pen than any gangster can do with a gun.

http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/H7TS7.jpg

so now we're inching towards the implication that cops don't murder criminal suspects eh

xxp

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:16 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is there really a meaningful distinction between actually murdering suspects, which isn't exactly commonplace ftr, and the sort of violence the cops routinely got away with? like how about the shit prez did the first two seasons. we were supposed to laugh at that or something?

i'm starting to think none of you actually watched this show

lol marcos

"the wire was a failure because it didn't literally depict this pet issue of mine which is now nationally relevant 10 years after the show aired"

like how about the shit prez did the first two seasons. we were supposed to laugh at that or something?

no but the show grooms you into loving prez as soon as he's moved off the street

Imagine criticising something

pet issue of mine

lol

yes that's called redemption

see here's the thing about the wire: it's nuanced. there are no "good guys" and "bad guys". it was definitely not made for this with-us-or-against-us tumblr era

pet issue of mine

lol

― marcos, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

complaining that the wire doesn't show any actual cop murders, even though it routinely depicts cops using violence on suspects and getting away with it, is a bit absurd, don't you agree? like maybe missing the point a bit?

see here's the thing about the wire: it's nuanced. there are no "good guys" and "bad guys". it was definitely not made for this with-us-or-against-us tumblr era

― k3vin k., Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:05 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no there are good guys and bad guys. i think you're thinking of Malick's The Tree of Life

its ok i get them confused too

Thing with Prez is that he's in the worst possible profession for him. Here's this technology- and puzzle-loving dweeb who finds himself with a gun and these jockish type A bullies, and to fit in, he puts on this gross projection of what he thinks a tough cop is supposed to be like. So you get him blinding a kid when he's out with Herc and Carver, and arguably why he shoots the UC cop. But put him in a different environment, one where he's not in the street, away from performances of masculinity, and he flourishes.

there are no "good guys" and "bad guys".

Marlo's nuanced eh

is there really a meaningful distinction between actually murdering suspects, which isn't exactly commonplace ftr, and the sort of violence the cops routinely got away with?

this is such a weird question

let's ask some dead people

s there really a meaningful distinction between actually murdering suspects, which isn't exactly commonplace ftr, and the sort of violence the cops routinely got away with?

this is such a weird question

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:22 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

let's ask some dead people

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:22 PM (29 seconds ago)

i mean from a narrative standpoint. does the show lose anything by showing cops "merely" beating people half to death and getting away with it rather than actually killing people and getting away with it? is the message different?

it doesn't cripple the show's claims to realism or anything but I think it's an error of omission, yeah, and one that serves the show's (or rather the genre's) tendency to err on the side of depicting cops in a more sympathetic light

i think it's a lot easier to say that in the context of the highly publicized police killings of the past 12 months or so. making that argument when the show was running would have been a lot more difficult

Marlo's nuanced eh

simon routinely acknowledged that he made marlo a straight up psychopath on purpose, but it'd be a stretch to say anything like that about any other dealer the show portrayed

trying to remember Avon's good qualities. or Bird's. etc.

Apart from Prez, are there any other cases where the cops even fire their weapons? Even for totally legit reasons?

trying to remember Avon's good qualities. or Bird's. etc.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:35 PM (1 minute ago)

herc's? rawls? burrell?

don't get me wrong there is a lot of grey area in the Wire and this is by design and it's really obvious. at the same time I don't think it's any stretch to say that the dealers on the whole come off worse than the cops, and a lot of the reason for this is because of the former's propensity for violence, which is constantly on display.

their goals are p much always the ones the audience is intended to sympathize with: stopping murderous crack dealers.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:38 AM (1 hour ago)

they're mostly heroin dealers tbh

sorry

Avon has real affection for D! And I think that first episode where we see him throwing a neighborhood BBQ also suggests that role that kingpins play in inner cities.

trying to remember Avon's good qualities. or Bird's. etc.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 11:35 AM (2 minutes ago)

Bird and Marlo were the two out-and-out sociopaths. Avon was kind and generous to his family and friends and visited his terminally ill uncle in the nursing home.

xp yea avon also gave cutty like 15 grand to fix up the gym

goals are p much always the ones the audience is intended to sympathize with

and it subverts that by openly depicting that more often than not, the drive to catch dealers is not bc they believe in justice, it's usually to stoke their own egos! and when mcnulty finally does have a person he actually wants to stop bc he feels like he has to (marlo), he goes to corrupt lengths to do so w/an elaborate ruse and an illegal wiretap

also I would hope that it goes without saying that the last 12-months' publicity frenzy over killer cops has more to do with social media and surveillance footage everywhere than it does with an actual increase in the rate of police killing minority suspects, which has been going on forever. It's not like that stuff just all of a sudden started happening a year ago: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/23/baltimore-has-a-history-of-accidentally-killing-its-perps.html

xp

Avon was kind and generous to his family and friends

doesn't Avon murder some family members? D'Angelo was his nephew iirc?

I mean that's kind of a marker of stone-cold evil, the murder of a family member

avon is unaware of d's murder until stringer, who arranged it, tells him so.

xp - duuuuuuude you have forgotten major plot points! Stringer has D'Angelo killed, and that is part of why Avon lets Omar and Brother kill him.

ah right

I watched this show once 10 years ago, forgive me

my takeaway so far is that Shakey seems to have watched as much of The Wire as I have, ie none of it

tbf a number of people in this thread are making arguments about the show that seem to be based less on the show than what the show's creators, critics, and various other people have written or said about the show.

tbf a number of people in this thread will brook no criticism of THE GREATEST SHOW OF ALL TIME

oh I include people arguing both sides in that number

tbf a number of people in this thread will brook no criticism of THE GREATEST SHOW OF ALL TIME

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:50 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so, like you re: the sopranos...