"The Wire" on HBO

oh it was about more than characters, and it was i think about 'the situation', v much so—portraying individuals struggling to work within bureaucracies & power structures, and it felt truthful in those portrayals! imo.

the wire is fine tv but it was always hella shallow in terms of portraying anything "deep" about why the situation was fucked, and people who thought that they understood "society's ills" better in any more fundamental fashion because they saw it were always corny. what made it a great show was that it had great characters.

― entry-level umami (mild bleu cheese vibes) (s.clover), Monday, May 4, 2015 10:37 PM (Yesterday)

rme, yes who were these lames watching the wire when _____ was on TV showing us what life was really like

Cutty kind of gets slept on in conversations about the show.

*farts*

Cutty kind of gets slept on in conversations about the show.

From who, everybody's mom?

I'm glad we've all come back around to the inauthenticity of The Wire.

ok i just saw an episode of this finally and maybe it grows on you but i was pretty taken aback by the sort of dippy romanticism it seemed to be dripping with -- way more than most network cop dramas even. hbo shows in generally tend to be sappy and just oozing from the pores with signifiers of "meaning."

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, October 3, 2006 12:03 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh i mean there were definitely some embarrassing on the nose/writerly moments. obvious example is the chess scene in s1. that doesn't really relate to what we've discussed itt recently though

Chess scene was pretty dead-on: Some people know things and have a view of the larger perspective - it doesn't help them in any way.

Regarding it being 'just a cop show' - I don't watch a lot of cop shows, but the impression I got was that being interested in the criminals as well was distinctive if not unique.

idg how anyone can avoid the fact that this show never strays too far from the "cops must catch bad guys" template of all cop shows - compromised and morally ambiguous as (some of) the cops may be, their goals are p much always the ones the audience is intended to sympathize with: stopping murderous crack dealers.

Starting to wonder if you saw some bootleg which only includes the cop-protagonist scenes.

there are p clear moral lines drawn - none of the cops are sociopathic murderers akin to Marlo or Avon

no but plenty of them are blatant careerists, especially the ranking officers

xpost - The evil on the cop "side" is more of the faceless/corrupt bureaucrat variety.

^^

that's what people are saying is the problem no?

cops at the top and dealers at the top are both shown to be blatant careerists, but the latter are the ones shown murdering people to get what they want. which side do you think is being portrayed in the more sympathetic light there.

the dealers exist in a universe where murder or violence of one's professional rivals is an active and constant currency, like that's simply a fact of organized crime. the cops...do not, but they often do things that, considering the universe they operate in, are figuratively as ruthless if not literally

Non-figurative murder and violence is a fact of cop life in a way that seems in retrospect to have been played down in this show, was the original criticism

so now we're inching towards the implication that cops don't murder criminal suspects eh

xxp

because they operate in a universe where that just doesn't happen?

The cops murdering people at the rate of a top drug dealer would turn the whole thing into some sub-House of Cards nonsense. The stupid bureacracy has plenty of deaths on their conscience, including Orlando, Wallace, Frank Zobotka, etc.

we're inching towards the implication that cops don't murder criminal suspects eh

what the hell?? when did anyone say that? how do you think that the show is literally saying or implying that?

what wins is saying is fair, i just don't think that fact - while it is a shortcoming - inherently damns the show to being viewed in any way as blatantly "pro-cop"

I'm not damning it, it's a good show. the cops are m/l the good guys in it.

Equality of corruption doesn't result in equality of body count - that's not a flaw in the show, I feel.

the dealers exist in a universe where murder or violence of one's professional rivals is an active and constant currency, like that's simply a fact of organized crime. the cops...do not, but they often do things that, considering the universe they operate in, are figuratively as ruthless if not literally

― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:06 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^

politicians and ranking cops can do more damage with the stroke of a pen than any gangster can do with a gun.

http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/H7TS7.jpg

so now we're inching towards the implication that cops don't murder criminal suspects eh

xxp

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:16 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is there really a meaningful distinction between actually murdering suspects, which isn't exactly commonplace ftr, and the sort of violence the cops routinely got away with? like how about the shit prez did the first two seasons. we were supposed to laugh at that or something?

i'm starting to think none of you actually watched this show

lol marcos

"the wire was a failure because it didn't literally depict this pet issue of mine which is now nationally relevant 10 years after the show aired"

like how about the shit prez did the first two seasons. we were supposed to laugh at that or something?

no but the show grooms you into loving prez as soon as he's moved off the street

Imagine criticising something

pet issue of mine

lol

yes that's called redemption

see here's the thing about the wire: it's nuanced. there are no "good guys" and "bad guys". it was definitely not made for this with-us-or-against-us tumblr era

pet issue of mine

lol

― marcos, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:04 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

complaining that the wire doesn't show any actual cop murders, even though it routinely depicts cops using violence on suspects and getting away with it, is a bit absurd, don't you agree? like maybe missing the point a bit?

see here's the thing about the wire: it's nuanced. there are no "good guys" and "bad guys". it was definitely not made for this with-us-or-against-us tumblr era

― k3vin k., Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:05 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no there are good guys and bad guys. i think you're thinking of Malick's The Tree of Life

its ok i get them confused too

Thing with Prez is that he's in the worst possible profession for him. Here's this technology- and puzzle-loving dweeb who finds himself with a gun and these jockish type A bullies, and to fit in, he puts on this gross projection of what he thinks a tough cop is supposed to be like. So you get him blinding a kid when he's out with Herc and Carver, and arguably why he shoots the UC cop. But put him in a different environment, one where he's not in the street, away from performances of masculinity, and he flourishes.

there are no "good guys" and "bad guys".

Marlo's nuanced eh

is there really a meaningful distinction between actually murdering suspects, which isn't exactly commonplace ftr, and the sort of violence the cops routinely got away with?

this is such a weird question

let's ask some dead people

s there really a meaningful distinction between actually murdering suspects, which isn't exactly commonplace ftr, and the sort of violence the cops routinely got away with?

this is such a weird question

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:22 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

let's ask some dead people

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:22 PM (29 seconds ago)

i mean from a narrative standpoint. does the show lose anything by showing cops "merely" beating people half to death and getting away with it rather than actually killing people and getting away with it? is the message different?

it doesn't cripple the show's claims to realism or anything but I think it's an error of omission, yeah, and one that serves the show's (or rather the genre's) tendency to err on the side of depicting cops in a more sympathetic light

i think it's a lot easier to say that in the context of the highly publicized police killings of the past 12 months or so. making that argument when the show was running would have been a lot more difficult

Marlo's nuanced eh

simon routinely acknowledged that he made marlo a straight up psychopath on purpose, but it'd be a stretch to say anything like that about any other dealer the show portrayed

trying to remember Avon's good qualities. or Bird's. etc.

Apart from Prez, are there any other cases where the cops even fire their weapons? Even for totally legit reasons?

trying to remember Avon's good qualities. or Bird's. etc.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 2:35 PM (1 minute ago)

herc's? rawls? burrell?

don't get me wrong there is a lot of grey area in the Wire and this is by design and it's really obvious. at the same time I don't think it's any stretch to say that the dealers on the whole come off worse than the cops, and a lot of the reason for this is because of the former's propensity for violence, which is constantly on display.

their goals are p much always the ones the audience is intended to sympathize with: stopping murderous crack dealers.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:38 AM (1 hour ago)

they're mostly heroin dealers tbh