Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

Fair. I wonder if there are areas of political discourse that escape the trappings of dogma, though. Hers is a very widely-applicable cautionary tale. I'd like to see how she attempts to effect sociocultural change going forward

yes, very good article; personally relate to a lot in it

magill piece is ok I dont have much time for the personal/confessional "let my experience teach u about the woooorlllld" type of piece even when it would suit my argument

But the personal/confessional angle is what rhetorically enables her to make her critique (e.g. "I will not mention a single sin that I have not been fully and damnably guilty of in my time"). All those disclaimers & qualifications & acknowledgments-- deftly done & rhetorically necessary for her addressees (within the radical left) to hear her.

her whole point may be that it soecifically does not. being right makes you right and anyone can make any point.

well maybe more rhetorically clever than entirely ideologically self-consistent but i think you can say "experience can be very valuable" w/out reducing it to "experience is the only thing of value"

idk maybe who cares

yeah, that's one of the interesting things about the essay. She deploys her personal ideological bona fides ("I was/am one of you") to render her argument persuasive; but one of the things she argues is that personal/group ID (like a shibboleth) is not determinative of political rationality or truth. (She uses a ladder in order to dispose of the ladder at the end.)

fair analysis, you could argue it a dozen or ways I guess

I relate because I'm very familiar with that rhetorical situation-- having to very carefully navigate political discussion, hedging and qualifying, maintaining your bona fides and walking on eggshells (I'm not, by temperament, an egg-crusher— though that sure seems like fun sometimes).

i wonder if being "right" or speaking "truth" is an important part of politics

one v other, or either

either

getting made and getting paid are the two main components iirc

"Kimmel said Kanye West had told him, Kimmel, that Obama calls him, Kanye, at home."

did Kimmel ask kanye if Obama calls kanye and Kim kimye also could kanye, Kim (or kimye) tell kimmel if they think Barack was born in kenya

Barack in the USSR.

Have they used that one yet?

No because it doesn't exist.

Never stopped them before.

His live sets are notoriously unpredictable. At the Wireless festival in London last summer he was reportedly booed after pausing the music to offer the crowd an extensive mid-set rant. On the other hand, his Watch the Throne tour with Jay-Z was regarded as one of the greatest hip-hop tours ever.

Whatever else might happen, it’s unlikely West’s Glastonbury appearance will be uneventful.

The Guardian is Glastonbury’s media partner.

sure

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Jack Monroe, anti-poverty campaigner, joins the Green party

With two huge bags of chocolate, a heap of fondant icing and a little help from a master chocolatier, Zoe Williams and her children create a homemade version of the Easter classic

Who needs Creme Eggs

Creme Chickens

is this thread just where dudes c&p sentences from whatever guardian page they're on at the moment because i often struggle to see the worseness in many of these

to each his own - i just personally find an article about someone making creme eggs with their kids to on the bemusing side of tedious and vapid.

With two huge bags of chocolate, a heap of fondant icing and a little help from a master chocolatier, Zoe Williams and her children create a homemade version of the Easter classic

well that's saved 50p then

the last step in the recipe is somehow selling an afternoon of your life to a global news website, that covers the cost of the entire thing

i just personally find an article about someone making creme eggs with their kids to on the bemusing side of tedious and vapid

Pretty sure it's not aimed at you though. Or me either tbf, and I haven't bothered to read the actual text but the piece itself is surely actually of some use to ppl with kids, right? Which puts it above a lot of space-filling lifestyle shit you read.

the piece is kind of fun, and i'm interested in how to make a creme egg even if i'll never do it, and i think zoe williams is often very good.

Perhaps they should replace it with an article in which Zoe Williams reads solemnly from Doktor Faustus, a child on each knee, pointing out the parallels to the rise of fascism.

the daily mail isn't aimed at me either

(I don't actually like Zoe Williams at all but this seems harmless enough)

it's completely harmless. personally i don't like the presumption that we should care about a columnist's life. people bake things with their kids all the time - that's great, but i don't need to read about it in the paper. the world does not revolve around your classic family home.

god this thread is bullshit

take it easy - people are entitled to an opinion

"this feature doesn't address my interests as a 30something single childless male" = the guardian is worse than it used to be

Perhaps they should replace it with an article in which Zoe Williams reads solemnly from Doktor Faustus, a child on each knee, pointing out the parallels to the rise of fascism.

Would actually read.

Isn't the point that readers should care about how to make Creme Eggs with their own kids? Most parents I know are desperate for novel ways to keep them occupied for an afternoon.

yeah its the process, not the cheapness nor making them tastier than actual creme eggs, i'm guessing

though it would not be hard to improve on hershey-era creme eggs, but that is another story

but yeah this is about women and kitchens and domestic life and therefore not important or deserving of coverage in the guardian, do i have that right?

His live sets are notoriously unpredictable. At the Wireless festival in London last summer he was reportedly booed after pausing the music to offer the crowd an extensive mid-set rant. On the other hand, his Watch the Throne tour with Jay-Z was regarded as one of the greatest hip-hop tours ever.

Whatever else might happen, it’s unlikely West’s Glastonbury appearance will be uneventful.

The Guardian is Glastonbury’s media partner.

This is genuine Phil McNulty vapidity though.

stevie OTM. Most of these recent examples are harmless.

Meanwhile they continue to publish cobblers like this.

I'm not really sure what Guardian readers are supposed to gain by reading Simon Jenkins on any subject but still ffs.

yeah i mean i find the empty politics-as-sports punditry endlessly more egregious and tiresome than any lifestyle piece tbh

but yeah this is about women and kitchens and domestic life and therefore not important or deserving of coverage in the guardian, do i have that right?

self-righteousness doesn't work when your first instinct was to throw out personal insults.

i resent the elevation of male pundits' personal lives as well - i don't really know why somebody is supposed to care about a journalist's life. not least now when they can read their friends or relatives writing about their lives or their families very easily and readily. nor should people have to live to some stupid standard of family existence.

i mean honestly, if it was just "make your own creme eggs" i'd be p much fine with it. i just dislike cult of personality for people who haven't actually done v much to deserve it.

and when i say "nor should people have to live to some stupid standard of family existence" i include people with families in that as well, fwiw.

self-righteousness doesn't work when your first instinct was to throw out personal insults.

pls direct me to the personal insults because i'm pretty sure i didn't drop any

i just dislike cult of personality for people who haven't actually done v much to deserve it.

riiiiiight

are you normally this aggressive when someone holds a different opinion?

I'm with you on this one, LG, not a 100% though.