Better Call Saul

It sort of (deliberately?) echoes the Walt/Heisenberg dichotomy.

he was on the books of los pollos hermanos as a loss prevention manager and did licensed P.I. gigs for saul

We first see him working solely for Saul, though, the Los Pollos Hermanos gig comes only later, in fact I think it may have been a retcon or something? IIRC Vince Gilligan mentioned in some interview that Mike was only gonna be a minor character, but they liked Jonathan Banks' performance so much they decided to give him a bigger role.

Based on what we've seen here, it makes sense that it was actually Jimmy/Saul who gets Mike involved with organizes crime through his contacts. (Or gets him involved with it again, as there are some hints he might've been a dirty cop back in Philly, which got him fired, and the ticket booth job is him trying to stay straight.) So I guess it's possible Mike really was just Saul's "cleaner" until Gus took notice of him and hired him. This would make Mike's story kinda parallel to Walt's: he felt poor and powerless in his job, got lured in by money, thinking he could leave his family a proper legacy, but in the end he died alone and no better than before his criminal career.

I think it's interesting that they could've made Jimmy/Saul go through a similar classical tragedy arc as Walt and Mike, but they seem to have done something kinda different with him. Jimmy is not really the stereotypical sleazy and amoral lawyer, he's appears to be a somewhat decent person, just weak and lazy enough to take the easy opportunity when one presents itself. Like, we see him do some questionable stuff here, like the billboard stunt, but he also makes some moral choices he wouldn't have needed to, like saving the skateboard twins or warning the Kettlemans about the Orphan Black gangster guy. So he's not like Walt, who always takes the easiest route, regardless of the consequences for others.

And I think showing him with some essential morality deep down is in line with his Breaking Bad depiction, where in the end he's still helping Jesse and Walt even though he could've folded in a long time ago. So it makes sense that in Greek Tragedy of BB he's pretty much the only one who gets out relatively unscathed.

I think it's good that the last couple of episodes have upped the comedy stakes: the guy with his own money, the talking toilet guy, and the stairway lift granny provided some hearty giggles, and I liked how they were just these Coen bros style black humour vignettes without any larger part in the overall plot. The first couple of episodes felt too much like Breaking Bad Lite (with some added Tuco fanservice), but with the latest ep it felt like this series is finding a tone of its own a bit different from BB.

Millionaire secessionist comfortably in Coen Bros. territory. Can't wait to see this show as a Nic Cage reboot.

Nothing about tonight's ep? I thought it was the best yet, even if tonally dissimilar to what came before. I love Mike (still possibly my favorite BB character) and I'm glad we're getting so much Mike on a show ostensibly centered around another character I love. Hope the dude wins his Emmy this time around.

It was pretty strong, but I dunno, like I said in my last post, the previous couple of eps felt like BCS was finally doing something different from BB, but this one reverted right back to familiar territory. And yeah, Banks is so good he can carry the whole thing, you could basically build an episode on nothing but his gruff remarks and slow walk and old man skin... But it still felt like painting by numbers; after Mike was interrogated by the cops and after his first talk with the daughter-in-law, it was pretty obvious how the rest of the episode would play out. There were no unexpected turns, no punch-in-the-gut moments like BB at its best had, when it was mining the same vein.

I think the episode lacked those unexpected turns and punch-in-the-gut moments because, as you say, Better Call Saul is doing something different than what Breaking Bad did. It was familiar because it was a bit grittier, like BB, and it retained a lot of its predecessor's stylistic quirks, but it's approaching similar material in a different way. I don't expect to ever see another "Hank fights for his life in a parking lot" or "Fring go boom" scene on BCS. Consider how much higher the tension would've been ratcheted up if Mike's showdown with the cops would've happened on BB. The scene as it played was practically laconic in comparison.

Well yeah, but I didn't think it was particularly interesting either. Everything that had happened in Philly was easily inferred from the interrogation scene and Mike's talk with the daughter-in-law (why didn't they even bother to give her a name?), the shooting scene didn't really add anything, it was more like "guess we have to show this now that we've talked about it?". The final scene was really strong though, the emotional stuff was much more interesting than any Terminator antics by Mike.

I'm largely pleased that, in a single episode, we got to see a range of emotion from Jonathan Banks that was kept in check for years on BB.

the plot was reheated noir but banks is a treasure and endlessly fun to watch on screen

I honestly would've been just as pleased if an Ehrmantraut For Hire spin-off had been announced instead.

The Ehrmentrautzer

Last nights episode was amazing.

I thought the interrogation scene was a nice little character moment for Jimmy too. We see that he is smart enough to deduce Mike's whole story from what he hears in the interrogation room, and, having figured it out, he changes his mind and spills the coffee. It's pretty interesting how the show keeps examining his morality with tests like this.

I have been dispassionately watching this series so far, thought the first two were quite weak and subsequent episodes were incrementally improving. But this was a massive improvement - as in BB Banks brings much emotional heft and elevates the show above the morass of standard tv series shite, he is a fine actor.

I wonder what transpires between now and breaking bad where Mike is able to see Kaylee unsupervised but the mom won't even talk to him

well *someone's* gotta die in this show

I feel the opposite of xelab - first few epsiodes were great. These last two have felt much more slower paced; a different vibe, but not bad.

Well yeah, but I didn't think it was particularly interesting either. Everything that had happened in Philly was easily inferred from the interrogation scene and Mike's talk with the daughter-in-law (why didn't they even bother to give her a name?), the shooting scene didn't really add anything, it was more like "guess we have to show this now that we've talked about it?". The final scene was really strong though, the emotional stuff was much more interesting than any Terminator antics by Mike.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, March 10, 2015 8:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm largely pleased that, in a single episode, we got to see a range of emotion from Jonathan Banks that was kept in check for years on BB.

― Eggnog On My Kangol (Old Lunch), Tuesday, March 10, 2015 8:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Maybe I've been spoilt a bit by BB, but one of my main gripes to do with this show is it falls foul to some very obvious exposition in places, and this episode was no exception. Lots of back story being withheld for a while, before being explained away in one fell swoop in a single scene. Felt the same about Chuck's stint in hospital last episode. They'd spent a lot of time expertly gearing up to it, making you wonder exactly what was up with him before that whole scene spelt it out for you pretty much line by line.

As for Banks' range, he does the huffling penitent thing very well, but I felt like there was a degree too much 'ACTING' in the scene where he broke down about Matty. And yeah, the cop shooting scene was so matter of fact compared to BB that I think it was deliberately attempting to play down any shock and awe. Not like Tuco breaking the skateboarders' legs which was truly alarming.

yeah the back half of this episode felt p unnecessary. would've preferred more Odenkirk

this show is so fucking good

I wonder what transpires between now and breaking bad where Mike is able to see Kaylee unsupervised but the mom won't even talk to him

...he gets work as muscle for a meth lord?

Man I gotta stop reading these week to week TV threads. It's like reviewing a book chapter by chapter.

I thought overexplaining Mike's backstory would be too much but they really made it work. This show has actually been very good for the most part in avoiding the usual prequel pitfalls.

Man I gotta stop reading these week to week TV threads. It's like reviewing a book chapter by chapter.

You do realize that TV shows are generally designed to be watched in weekly installments? So it's not the same as reading a book?

Apart from all the books that were published as weekly installments

Yeah, great, thanks guys.

Gott Punch otm though -- TV threads have this really brainless tendency to discuss each episode as if it were a stopping point, much like running a review of a book after finishing a chapter. "I'm liking this book, but chapter 39 I don't really buy - Nancy eavesdrops on Fagin and Monks? Come on, Fagin checks every room twice before he even starts talking. Oliver Twist has totally jumped the shark, it was good while it lasted"

I don't really see any problem with it, speculating the stuff of weekly installments is part and parcel of serialized entertainment, and it's often even encouraged by the makers - that's the whole point of cliffhangers, which BB had, and Saul has too! If they didn't want viewers to speculate, they would have, say, ended the episode 5 with the Philly cops telling why they've come to interview Mike, instead of ending it right before we get the chance to hear what's going on. So the makers of BCS are actively encouraging crazy fan theorizing. And to me at least it's part of the fun of watching a series while it's airing! Like, when I was in junior high and Twin Peaks was on the Finnish telly, the next day me and my friends would gather during the first recess to make wild guesses about what's going to happen next, and it made the whole thing more special, like we were all sharing the whole ride while it was happening... I don't see message board discussions and speculations and nit-pickings as any different from that, it's part of being a viewer/fan of a series. If you want to treat some series like it's a novel and not a succession of weekly installments, then don't come to the thread until it's all over... But I don't really get what's wrong with other people wanting to share the experience like this?

i can understand where he is coming from. speculation of plot dev is totally fun and an enjoyable grp activity. dissection of the flaws of something you enjoy is often less so (esp so early in the life cycle as we are here). these threads are often much heavier on the latter than the former, which doesn't work for everybody.

tuomas otm

You do realize that TV shows are generally designed to be watched in weekly installments? So it's not the same as reading a book?

You are aware that there's an invention called television, and on this invention they show shows?

_I wonder what transpires between now and breaking bad where Mike is able to see Kaylee unsupervised but the mom won't even talk to him_

...he gets work as muscle for a meth lord?

last line of the episode was something like "you know what happened next, the question is can you live with it" -- so maybe she decides she can't?

Yeah, that was my though too... She knows Mike is absolutely dedicated to his family, so she still lets her look after Kaylee (makes being a single mom easier too), but after he revealed all that she can't bear to look him in the eyes anymore.

"so she still lets him look after Kaylee"

maybe those maxi pads weren't just* for the wounds, then

Felix will wash himself, but Oscar won't. He just won't!

that was the saddest ending for anything i've seen in a long while.

I feel like this show is waaaay better at dealing with the gray areas of ethics/morality, or at least the pull/descent of/into unethical/illegal behavior than Breaking Bad ever was. I mean, I never thought that was the point of Breaking Bad, but at certain earlier points it was, and many people seemed to think that's what the series was about.

^^^ thinking the exact same thing last night. In a lot of ways they've (oddly) made Saul a more sympathetic character, a human with actual ethical dilemmas in a way Walt never was beyond maybe the first couple episodes of BB

and I like how this isn't a show where every episode hinges on some sort of high-stakes tension/crisis that he has to weasel out of, it's much more subtle and character-driven than the sort of mechanical "how will they get out of THIS" constructs of so much of BB

otm. enjoying this show for that exact reason.

also the sex toilet scene.

curious as to where they're going to go over the next few episodes, as this last one seemed to wrap up a lot of the existing plot arcs.

Whatsisface the gangbanger will certainly rear his head in the next ep or two.

ya- i thought he was shaping up to be the main antagonist, but he's vanished completely.

Interesting that they still keep on depicting Jimmy as someone who does the right thing, in the end... I wonder what his point of no return will be, when he'll turn from "Jimmy" to "Saul"? The plot seems to be wired so that something will happen to Chuck, and that's when Jimmy is lost. Chuck is clearly set up as his moral anchor, Jimmy didn't even want him to find out about the billboard stunt, so I don't think he could become fully crooked if Chuck was still around. (Also, could he ever confess to Chuck he changed the family name they share into something Jewish-sounding just for profits? Though I guess there's still the possibility that big law firm will force him to change his name to avoid trademark infringement.)

well we know Chuck exits the picture at some point, so yeah I think you're right that how that happens is going to be a big turning point in the show and for Jimmy

well, this last episode the only reason he "did the right thing" was to help out his lawyer friend Kim. i was guessing that as soon as she leaves the picture, he'll have no motive to be a better person any more.

^^^ thinking the exact same thing last night. In a lot of ways they've (oddly) made Saul a more sympathetic character, a human with actual ethical dilemmas in a way Walt never was beyond maybe the first couple episodes of BB

Yeah but Jimmy has a future and Walt, even after remission, never really did. So, yeah, BCS will be a lot of grey area and what can I live with as opposed to BB, in Walt's case, being more of a the system fucked me over for 50 years and now I'm going to fuck with it. Jesse had a ton of moral grey area.