To you.
― "Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:07 (nine years ago) link
"the best rape prevention program is armed women" has been a gun-nut jpg slogan for my whole adult life; i'm surprised it took this long for something quasi-real to come out of it
― goole, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:08 (nine years ago) link
i do think it matters whether we define it as an "epidemic" because that inevitably colors how we handle the problem through policy and otherwise. for example the dep't of education's "dear colleague" letter, which has caused many colleges to start adjudicating rapes in a way that many people (victims and those accused) have taken issue with, was in large part motivated by the perception of an "epidemic" or surge in campus rapes.
but in any case yeah guns won't help alleviate campus rape. that's why i referred to those advocating for guns on campus as essentially 'trolling' in their newfound concern for campus rape.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:09 (nine years ago) link
No one in this conversation called it an epidemic so I don't see why you need to make an argument against a position no one here has taken.
― "Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:10 (nine years ago) link
context for dep't of education thing: http://chronicle.com/article/Campus-Is-a-Poor-Court-for/134770/
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:10 (nine years ago) link
No one in this conversation called it an epidemic so I don't see why you need to make an argument against a position no one here has taken.― "Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:10 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― "Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:10 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you're right, sorry
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:11 (nine years ago) link
i guess i was doing some trolling of my own. this is a conversation i've been having with folks not-on-ILX for a while, so i guess i kind of imported that context here in my mind.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:12 (nine years ago) link
"women must be armed to prevent rapes" is once again putting the onus on women to fight off rapes rather than, ya know, punishing and preventing rapists from committing rape
― Nhex, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:16 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, I would like to drop that conversational byway. It's mostly an artifact of people coming around to acknowledging non-stranger rape is real, and rather than admitting it's been happening all along, they have to make some amazing claim that it suddenly came into existence in order to invalidate their past inaction.
On the other hand, most people who shoot others do shoot people they know.
― mh, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:17 (nine years ago) link
xpost
true, but i guess the advocates would argue that it's on a continuum with the sort of women's self-defense training that's pretty common on campus and doesn't obviate the need to reduce rapes through prevention/prosecution.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:18 (nine years ago) link
multi-xps
I see that "epidemic" does not occur anywhere in the NYT article.
I will admit I have no especially well-developed ideas about rape on campus, but it doesn't take much thought to observe that campuses have high concentrations of 18-25 year old women, which is a fairly vulnerable cohort for rape, including both assault rape and acquaintance rape.
I expect that dealing with those two different categories would require two different strategies, but greatly multiplying the number of guns on campus seems like a policy that is particularly ill-suited to addressing acquaintance rapes, and a pretty damn poor way to reduce assault rapes, too.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:31 (nine years ago) link
nb: not having any grip on the preferred jargon for what I am calling acquaintance and assault rape, I simply used the terms that fell to hand. feel free to flay me for this indiscretion.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:37 (nine years ago) link
there's not a lot of agreement about what the "typical" campus rape looks like. there are some high-profile folks who advance the theory that most campus rapes come from serial offenders who are effectively sociopaths or worse, but many others have strongly challenged this idea. i think the alternative idea--that "good" men commit rape, because of their (likely alcohol-aided) disregard for boundaries--is particularly unsettling.
and yeah like you i really have no idea what the reality is. i think there's a big move afoot for better-funded and more carefully-designed research on this very subject, so maybe in a few years we'll have a better sense of what goes on and thus how it might best be prevented and dealt with.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:42 (nine years ago) link
but yeah i doubt the answer will be "guns"
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:43 (nine years ago) link
I find that the questions best answered by "guns" are along the lines of "what do I need if I want to shoot somebody"
― "Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:46 (nine years ago) link
"What is the most fun way of making a hole in something from 20 feet away"
― mh, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:47 (nine years ago) link
you guys should write a jeopardy category
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 20:49 (nine years ago) link
but it doesn't take much thought to observe that campuses have high concentrations of 18-25 year old women, which is a fairly vulnerable cohort for rape, including both assault rape and acquaintance rape white men in an environment where they can feel reasonable certainty that their actions will go unpunished, which are all indicators for a high occurrence of sexual assault.
Also having said that iirc the incidence of rape is actually higher among women who don't go to college though, so....
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:06 (nine years ago) link
I like to keep my personal career talk to 77, but you are very near the mark xp
― mh, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:06 (nine years ago) link
orbit I'm curious if there's some statistical reason you call out white men specifically there
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:15 (nine years ago) link
or is that just a "white = more likely to get away with it" type of thing
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:16 (nine years ago) link
Specifically because it was the very first point at my source: "Sex offenders are overwhelmingly white males. Nearly 99% of sex offenders in single-victim incidents were male and 6 in 10 were white (Greenfeld, 1997)."
http://sapac.umich.edu/article/196
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:18 (nine years ago) link
huh. weird.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:20 (nine years ago) link
"Sex offenders are overwhelmingly white males. Nearly 99% of sex offenders in single-victim incidents were male and 6 in 10 were white (Greenfeld, 1997)."
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:18 (10 minutes ago)
this statistic would suggest a large cohort of white american men would contain fewer sex offenders than cohorts american men other races?
― no love deb weep (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:36 (nine years ago) link
7 in 10 men are white, I believe, so... inconclusive
― mh, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:22 (nine years ago) link
also, at least 9 in 10 white men are men.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:22 (nine years ago) link
eh shove off, I actually looked that up for north america
― mh, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:23 (nine years ago) link
i wasn't making fun of you, just of statistics
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:38 (nine years ago) link
:)
― mh, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:45 (nine years ago) link
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, February
considering 77% of americans are white, 60% is pretty good. tho as shakey points out part of that could be due to who actually gets charged for sexual assault
― k3vin k., Thursday, 19 February 2015 00:15 (nine years ago) link
actually check that 62.6% of americans are non-hispanic white
― k3vin k., Thursday, 19 February 2015 00:16 (nine years ago) link
― goole, Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:08 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
man the town listserv was all about this a few days ago re: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2015/SB0116.html
― gbx, Thursday, 19 February 2015 00:18 (nine years ago) link
nh loves their guns man
― k3vin k., Thursday, 19 February 2015 00:20 (nine years ago) link
People in the Midwest don't understand the redneckery of rural northeast, generally. My recent coworker acquaintance is from rural Maine and I have a knowing eyebrow-raise in our interactions.
― mh, Thursday, 19 February 2015 03:59 (nine years ago) link
Wow---Currington comes off like a wuss, but he's not nearly as successful as McGraw (who might still get Dixie Chicked, to some extent)(we'll see what the fading Duck Dynasty Daddy has to say; ditto Kid Rock, Hank Jr., Ted Nugent)http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tim-mcgraws-sandy-hook-show-sparks-controversy-billy-currington-bails-20150417
― dow, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:43 (nine years ago) link
I have to think at some point that shouting about your right to automatic rifles at the expense of a pile of dead children would create an image problem for you.
― DJP, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:51 (nine years ago) link
you would think so, and yet...
― casual male (will), Friday, 17 April 2015 20:42 (nine years ago) link
(we just enjoyed a 78,000+ strong NRA convention here last weekend)
― casual male (will), Friday, 17 April 2015 20:45 (nine years ago) link
"enjoyed"
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/charleston-and-the-next-time
― wisdom be leakin out my louche douche truths (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 13:22 (eight years ago) link
A generally forgotten '90s episode recalled at the end of this piece by ILE fave Dennis Perrin:
Nothing proved this awesome power of gun cult batshittery more than the controversy in the mid-90s, when ex-President George H. W. Bush resigned from the NRA and published a letter attacking the NRA. The language in Bush Sr.’s letter may seem mild to us today, but back then, this is about as close to raw outrage as a blue-blooded elder statesman gets:... (text follows)
https://pando.com/2015/06/26/brief-history-american-gun-nuts/5b63d36f4248427552398e4d08fe314a0851f942/
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 19:05 (eight years ago) link
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/S-F-killing-sparks-national-outrage-likely-6366684.php
# of times the word 'immigration' appears: 10# of times the word 'gun' appears: 0
― a silly gif of awkward larping (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 5 July 2015 03:52 (eight years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/us/a-culture-clash-over-guns-infiltrates-the-backcountry.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Moth-Visible&module=inside-nyt-region®ion=inside-nyt-region&WT.nav=inside-nyt-region
what a dumb fucking hobby
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 22:06 (eight years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COpoYwQUkAAW_ZS.png
― mookieproof, Friday, 11 September 2015 20:58 (eight years ago) link
I think this is interesting:
A veteran who says he was carrying a concealed weapon on Oregon’s Umpqua Community College campus Thursday when 26-year-old Christopher Harper Mercer went on a murderous rampage, says he didn’t intervene because he knew police SWAT team members wouldn’t know him from the shooter.
In an interview with MSNBC, veteran John Parker said he knows lots of students who conceal carry at the school because, despite a school policy that discourages weapons on campus, Oregon state law does allow it.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/armed-vet-destroys-gun-nuts-argument-on-mass-shooters-by-explaining-why-he-didnt-attack-oregon-killer/
― sleeve, Saturday, 3 October 2015 01:30 (eight years ago) link
That exact scenario has gone through my head a lot of times when I hear the arguments for concealed carry -- how do the cops know who's the shooter and who's trying to stop him?
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Saturday, 3 October 2015 01:34 (eight years ago) link
this is good too:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-byrd/are-guns-americas-biggest_b_8062870.html
― sleeve, Saturday, 3 October 2015 01:40 (eight years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/
― a llove spat over a llama-keeper (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 18 October 2015 05:11 (eight years ago) link
people seem to be shooting toddlers on a weekly basis too cf that horrible story in albuquerque.
― nomar, Friday, 23 October 2015 02:09 (eight years ago) link
Despite a spike in sales, Hawaii boasts persistently low rates of violence involving firearms, offering lessons for the rest of the United States.
― new noise, Sunday, 15 November 2015 17:02 (eight years ago) link