jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

ughhhhhh

Melanie's Marvelous Measles

― kate78, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:03 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I linked that over two years ago, nerds! Try to keep up! ;)

dag

that author's story is incredibly sad - i think in her case i can kinda understand how she arrived at her anti-vaxx stance, even if i think that people like her are still contributing to a dangerous situation: her kid died without any kind of diagnosis, and the only correlation she could find was the vaccine schedule, which equalled causation in her mind.

My friend Sarah wrote this. It's good. https://medium.com/the-archipelago/im-autistic-and-believe-me-its-a-lot-better-than-measles-78cb039f4bea

that's an excellent piece

Yeah I just shared the fuck outta that.

Although quite a few of my friends have kids on the autistic spectrum, none of the parents affected think it's caused by vaccines. I have only one (old, school) friend who is anti-vaxx, who is always sharing links about big-pharma conspiracies relating to mass vaccination. She home-schools (her kids act and and model) and is a bit Jesusy (more from the left, wouldn't presume to tell other women about reproductive issues) but nobody's responding AT ALL to her shared links.

I caught measles after my vaccination, but in hindsight it was probably because I was immuno-suppressed (in fact, silently growing a kidney tumour that wasn't discovered until I was four).

The Toronto Star claims HPV vaccine Gardasil has a "dark side": http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/05/hpv-vaccine-gardasil-has-a-dark-side-star-investigation-finds.html

Article is written with the apparent belief that "post hoc ergo propter hoc" is the highest standard of evidence. Examples of harm supposedly linked to the vaccine include:
-- a teenager who was "allergic to metal" who developed fibromyalgia supposedly in reaction to the aluminum salts in the vaccine
-- a 14 year old who had a heart attack (cardiac arrest, given the description) 9 days after receiving her first dose
-- a 13 year old who developed "egg-size lumps on the soles of her feet, her joints swelled and her limbs twitched uncontrollably" and who had "digestive problems" diagnosed with an eating disorder
-- a 29 year old who developed nausea, "weakness" and migraines
-- an unspecified number of patients who have "pain and issues", "doctors told them the illnesses were imagined, that they had eating or anxiety disorders, that the problems were in their head"
-- a 14 year old who had what sounds like a migraine 16 days after her first dose ("Annabelle “came out of (her) room disoriented, she could hardly walk, she couldn’t speak. She was mumbling.” Annabelle was also vomiting and complained of a bad headache. Morin took her daughter to the hospital, where a brain scan turned up nothing. Soon Annabelle felt better.), and then was found drowned in the bathtub 15 days after her second dose

I'm not convinced that any of those cases have anything to do with the vaccine.

Dr Jen Gunter (OBGYN, pain specialist) wrote a couple of very well measured responses putting the Star's report in context:
https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/toronto-star-claims-hpv-vaccine-unsafe-science-says-the-toronto-star-is-wrong/
https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/explaining-gardasil-girls-and-hpv-vaccine-safety-to-the-toronto-star-and-heather-mallick/

The second of those references some pushback from one of the Star's op-ed columnists, Heather Mallick, who wrote an above-it-all article that managed to be pro-vaccination while suggesting that vaccinations are a shades-of-grey issue, with Gardasil a case of where there's smoke there's fire (and also that anyone dismissing the relevance of these claims of vaccine-related harm was failing to listen to the pain of the young women reported in the article, guilty of "Tea Party thinking", etc): http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/06/vaccine-debate-is-one-we-shouldnt-even-be-having-mallick.html

Mallick mentioned "Bad Science" author Dr Ben Goldacre in her article, as someone showing how statistics can be misused in medicine. She reached out to him for support on twitter. Goldacre did not take her side in the debate, calling her out at length for "crass, outdated, irresponsible journalism": https://storify.com/karengeier/when-teaching-yourself-statistics-is-no-match-for

A swarm of twitter discussion ensued, mostly from Canadian MDs and PhDs, who Mallick has been blocking one by one, because she considers that kind of response to be "pro-vaccination trolling" and wants twitter to be about "sunlight".

Good job, Canada.

It's kinda weird when shit we've been talking about on & off for years on here suddenly gets thrust into the (inter)national spotlight.

Goldacre twirade is something

It's pretty awesome but this from Mallick piece is amazing: "Here’s a tip: don’t read a website run by a rural doctor whose slogan is “wielding the lasso of truth.”" But by all means read the Star lol.

Goldacre missed his chance to do McLuhan from Annie Hall: "you know nothing of my work!"

The "rural doctor" in question is board certified in 3 specialties and practices in Marin County, if I've got that right. But she's from Winnipeg, a village of barely 700,000 peasants.

Her motto "wielding the lasso of truth" is a Wonder Woman reference and not meant to situate her in a James Herriot pastoral.

In conclusion, Toronto sucks.

I know that's what made the comment particularly lol. And it's not like this info was hard to find! It's on the About Me on the blog post that Mallick is presumably responding to.

man that is an infuriatingly irresponsible article

I have no connection whatsoever with Ben Goldacre but, reading that, I found myself feeling proud of him.

there is also a difference between "being dismissed by doctors [after falling] terribly ill" and being upset that doctors will not simply tell one what one wants to hear. no doctor should be rudely dismissive of a patient's concerns, however unfounded they are, but the one mother from the article having to drop her lawsuit against merck because no doctor would testify that the vaccine likely caused the harm sounds like a nation of doctors doing their jobs.

there is also a difference between "being dismissed by doctors [after falling] terribly ill" and being upset that doctors will not simply tell one what one wants to hear.

There should be a difference. But in practice, validating suffering as suffering only goes so far. If you're not willing to allow the possibility that the pain and fatigue are due to MS, or Lyme, or chemical exposures, or that workplace related injury from 1998, then you're likely to be perceived as dismissive or even as outright hostile. It's a frustrating and emotionally draining situation to be in as a doctor (and I'm sure the patients are no happier).

Meanwhile, here's Vox on the Toronto Star situation -- http://www.vox.com/2015/2/10/8009973/toronto-star-hpv-vaccine -- with this amazing quote from their editor-in-chief:

Over the weekend and again on Monday morning, I wrote to the Toronto Star about my concerns. The editor-in-chief Michael Cooke replied first. He dismissed my concerns, and pointed to a "very pro-Gardasil story" I wrote for Vox recently. He then said that my "time might be better spent doing your own Vox-paid-for research into Gardasil-good-and-questionable rather than idly picking into other reporters' work" and that I should "stop gargling our bathwater and take the energy to run yourself your own, fresh tub." He's a charmer.

refreshing to see someone other than cops & politicians closing ranks around bad decisions.

to suggest that the star is feeding a dangerous fire by providing an alternative set of "facts" to fuel uneducated and dangerous opinions would be an understatement. giving credence to crazy theories founded solely on anecdote is to disregard any notion of integrity in journalism

it's funny you mention lyme because i was reminded a bit of michael specter's (whom i otherwise love) article a couple years ago on chronic lyme. like the star article, and the columnist who defended it, specter's article engaged in some clever bet-hedging where he reported semi-approvingly on the views of medical experts while also relating anecdotes that suggested a link between his subject's symptoms and infection with lyme. that sort of false-balance reporting is imo lazy and can be quite harmful, particularly in the cases of vaccines. i don't know how mallick can't see that

the other thing is like -- vaccines DO have side effects! i'll even admit that a couple of the events were related to the vaccine - i'm not sure how else you'd explain the two cases of anaphylaxis, assuming they were immediate. but there is a serious discussion to be had about how many rare possible adverse events health professionals (doctors, pharmacists, nurses, etc) must reasonably be willing to disclose. if doctors needed to recite from the package insert every adverse event possibly, likely, or definitely related to the drug (the casual link for the majority of these being nebulous) they would have little time to do anything else, and would likely do more harm than good by frightening their patients needlessly. that's another practical issue the star seems unable to grasp

my friend's crazy sister posted this link on fb:
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/dr-lee-hieb-m-d-vaccine-hysteria-could-spark-totalitarian-nightmare/

so i looked into this dr, wondering how legit she is.
Dr. Lee Hieb is an orthopaedic surgeon specializing in spinal surgery. She is past president of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a free market medical organization and author of the new book "Surviving the Medical Meltdown: Your Guide to Living Through the Disaster of Obamacare."

she's also a hardcore libertarian and ran for governor of iowa.

http://humanevents.com/author/dr-lee-hieb/

i'm pretty sure she doesn't really give a fuck about autism or the medical impact of vaccines, she just hates the idea of anyone having any social responsibility.

change "willing" to "required" in that second paragraph of mine

Maybe it's obvious, but I thought this was a pithy response to an article about parents considering "measles parties" to expose their unvaccinated kids to measles:

Victor Matheson · Top Commenter · Professor at College of the Holy Cross
Actually, this is a pretty smart idea. I just wish scientists could figure out way to give all children a very mild strain of a disease in order to build up their natural resistance to illnesses.

In fact, it would be even more convenient if doctors could package up that mild strain into something like an injection that could make kids more immune to getting sick.

Ah, but this is all wishful thinking. We will never be able to invent such a useful product as this.

loooool

Haha

haha

benghazi lunatic dips her toes into other waters

https://twitter.com/SharylAttkisson/status/565582256572727297

Beautiful presentation of data on the historical decline of infectious diseases: http://graphics.wsj.com/infectious-diseases-and-vaccines/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9mIEqeCIAAAY46.jpg

Credit where due: a bill allowing personal and religious exemptions to vaccine requirements has died in the MS House.

I've been thinking a lot about this lately - I had the measles (and the mumps, and rubella) as a kid and wondered why I wasn't vaccinated. I don't think my folks were anti-vax; I remember getting the smallpox and polio vaccines. Then I looked at the timeline - the first measles vaccine was available in 1963; I had the measles in 1963/4. The MMR vaccine was introduced in 1971; I had the mumps in 1971/2. Who knows when I had rubella - when I had a titre done in 1981 (pregnant, hadn't had the vaccine), I had plenty of immunity.

mumps is fictitious

#mumpstruthnow

Ytth came home last night with a few weird looking red spots on his face/head. Since some dude road Bart last week with measles, I had a minor freak out til I googled the symptoms.

is measles something you should get a booster for, as an adult?

nah

From here:http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5440-Immunizationa1.htm (emphasis added)

Measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccination. Measles component: adults born before 1957 can be considered immune to measles. Adults born during or after 1957 should receive >1 dose of MMR unless they have a medical contraindication, documentation of >1 dose, history of measles based on health-care provider diagnosis, or laboratory evidence of immunity. A second dose of MMR is recommended for adults who 1) were recently exposed to measles or in an outbreak setting; 2) were previously vaccinated with killed measles vaccine; 3) were vaccinated with an unknown type of measles vaccine during 1963--1967; 4) are students in postsecondary educational institutions; 5) work in a health-care facility; or 6) plan to travel internationally.

In other words, nah.

Ok good to know. I'm not that worried about catching it myself but I sure as hell don't want to be a vector for disease.

Totally! very responsible and thoughtful of you.

xpost - Mr. Jaq came down with 5th disease last year, and was covered with a measles-like rash - pretty scary.

He's only got three faint spots and they're not hot or itchy so I guess it's just one of those random body things.

hmm i emailed my dr before i asked this thread and she just got back to me - she wants me to get a blood test to check my immunity. i have to get a bunch of other tests anyway, so i guess it's better to be safe than sorry.

Toronto Star retracts its "investigation" of the supposedly harmful effects of Gardasil, announces that it will remove the article from its website: http://www.thestar.com/news/2015/02/20/a-note-from-the-publisher.html

Dr Jen Gunter conducts the autopsy: https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/02/21/autopsy-of-toronto-star-hpv-article-and-the-real-dark-side-of-gardasil-they-missed/

Pretty weak statement from the Star

Did anyone else know that the term "conscientious objector" supposedly stems from the "conscience" clause that allowed British people to avoid the mandatory smallpox vaccination of 1898?

i'd be surprised if there wasn't an older military-related root but no did not know that

you're quoting some other crazy person, right? i don't think that's true

Concept definitely older but Google does indicate that is origin.

Because SCIENCE is a CON
wake up sheeple

More on the redacted Toronto Star story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/25/botched-newspaper-expose-of-hpv-vaccines-dark-side-reveals-dark-side-of-news-business

Holy Hell, I just saw this science dropped by an anti vaxer on FB: "Every prescription drug that's been recalled was once approved by the FDA!!!"