Rolling MENA 2014 (Middle East)

suggest for new phrase 'burning the pilot' to describe when a movement oversteps and alienates even its own supporters cf the old cartoon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping_the_Pilot

shit, totally burned the pilot here and they're going to sister souljah us

Psyched for some RAF/Saudi 30th anniversary Al-Yamamah tandem raids, tbh.

Jordan wants to do more too.

One of Mordy's fave writers (said sarcastically) Juan Cole is comparing this to the George Bush Shock and Awe campaign

http://www.juancole.com/2015/02/shock-because-victim.html

While others are analysing Islamic writing for an explanation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/04/the-chilling-reason-the-islamic-state-burned-a-jordanian-pilot-alive/

One point that has bothered me in the Lawrence Wright book so far is the portrayal of Begin as though he almost single-handedly invented modern terrorism. Seems dangerously close to an anti-semitic canard.

Koplow asks if Turkey is on the precipice of a presidential takeover

He's referencing Stephen A. Cook on that who has been critical of Turkey since 2010. Some folks online don't seem to trust Cook. I dunno.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/jordan-airstrikes-isis_n_6620844.html

Jordan air strikes...

that'll learn 'em

who knew jordan had fighter jets

is that a ref to this shakey classic

I agree, Shakey. Though I don't think Israel should do it. I think if they're so hot to invade {Syria}, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and France should do it.

― Mordy , Tuesday, 27 August 2013 18:11 (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol Saudi Arabia do they even have an army

― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 August 2013 18:12 (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

heh heh

but seriously has saudi arabia ever deployed their American-gifted military might against anybody? I guess they did some shit in Gulf War I iirc. SA's all about proxy warfare afaict.

according to wiki SA spends 60 billion a year on its military, three times as much as Israel, which seems incredible

SA is a good deal richer than Israel

i thought the CW was that the saudi military is (to some degree) an operation in prince-busying and contractor-enriching

i need to sell them an aircraft carrier

i mean, more than what any other country's military is i guess

SA is a good deal richer than Israel a good reminder when we talk about regional hegemonies

that juan cole piece is otm

really? i didn't see anything of value in it, or even get his point. was it just doing another "we're just as bad as them" post?

yeah well maybe we are. to some.

anyway i'm gonna need a liiitle more corroboration for this, juan:

The Iraqi military turned guerrilla and harried US troops for 8 1/2 years, then many of the ex-Baath officers and trained soldiers deserted secular nationalism, turned to al-Qaeda-type ideologies, formed Daesh and took over western and northern Iraq and eastern Syria.

The ex-Baath officers learned from seeing their colleagues and troops burned up by the Bush fireworks.

i mean, that's fine as an argument, but what makes it different from like every other article he has written?

also, i feel like he gets so close to Stalin's statistics quote but just can't quite cross the rubicon

didn't u know the natives weren't smart enough to learn about burning ppl themselves - they had to be taught by the decadent west ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They knew only peace until the white man came with his thunder stick

http://www.timesofisrael.com/unesco-head-nixes-offensive-unacceptable-palestine-poster-collection/

The head of UNESCO vetoed the inclusion of a vast collection of Palestine-themed posters in a register of world heritage, arguing that the posters fuel hatred and anti-Semitism, The Times of Israel has learned.

The decision by Irina Bokova to block the Liberation Graphics Collection of Palestine Posters from being accepted into UNESCO’s Memory of the World program marks the first time such a nomination has been vetoed.

The collection was initially accepted by an advisory board but then blocked by Bokova, who said some of the posters were “totally unacceptable” and “run counter to the values of UNESCO,” the UN’s Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

Besides universal themes of occupation and the motifs depicting the struggle for liberation and peace — such as barbed wire and white doves — many of the posters feature machine guns and hand grenades, extolling armed resistance and terrorism. Some of the posters glorify Palestinian suicide attacks and other murderous missions against Israeli civilians, including a 1978 massacre known in Israel as the bloodiest terror attack in the country’s history.

Just wow, good for UNESCO. I would not have expected this (if I had known that this archive was up for inclusion).

according to wiki SA spends 60 billion a year on its military, three times as much as Israel, which seems incredible

If they didn't spend that the UK would be a whole lot poorer.

Well, Juan Cole is not the only one bugging people with comparisons re ISIS:

President Obama may have thought he was giving a straightforward history lesson at the National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday when he compared the atrocities of the Islamic State to the bloodshed committed in the name of Christianity in centuries past.

But that is not how many of his longtime critics saw it.

“The president’s comments this morning at the prayer breakfast are the most offensive I’ve ever heard a president make in my lifetime,” said Jim Gilmore, the former Republican governor of Virginia. “He has offended every believing Christian in the United States.”

Rush Limbaugh devoted a segment of his show to what he said were the president’s insults to the “whole gamut of Christians” and Twitter’s right wing piled on. Guests on Megyn Kelly’s Fox News show spent 15 minutes airing objections to the president’s comments.

“Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ,” Mr. Obama said. “In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/us/politics/obama-national-prayer-breakfast-terrorism-islam.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

T. Coates is tweeting about the KKK and its use of fire too

gotta be honest that the argument "well they're only just as bad as european christianity + american slavery" is not so persuasive to me

"before we get on our high horses let's remember that the de facto leader of the EU was running gas chambers less than a decade ago"

I kinda enjoy seeing high-horse types saying dumb things when confronted with history. Whether you can persuade anyone that their religion has been used as cover for immoral actions, is not easy.

Meanwhile, the neo-cons (of various faiths) on the Washington Post editorial page are grumbling that because Obama wants a nuclear treaty with Iran, he is going easy on Iran's client state Syria, and is not providing enough weapons and support to the 'moderate rebels' in Syria who can overthrow Assad, and is not putting enough US special-op folks on the ground to spot ISIS movements so the alliance can take the fight to them more efficiently

obv i meant century not decade too early sorry xp

I also find it a not very effective or persuasive line of argument but it's hard to put my finger on exactly why. It just seems like the endgame of it is no one should ever criticize anyone lest they be hypocrites, and that's not a very productive stance in global politics.

the search for a productive stance in global politics continues

"Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, in Europe and Middle East of the 11th through 15th centuries, a people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ."

Would probably be more effective if he was like "Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that I have an appointment to drop some drones in Yemen after lunch."

"Wow, that burning video, sick stuff. But let's be real, nobody's perfect."

i think i'd have to hear the whole context of obama's remarks to understand how they were intended.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/05/remarks-president-national-prayer-breakfast

it's better in context - i mean still hedgy as he goes on and on about humility, and says "part of humility is also recognizing in modern, complicated, diverse societies, the functioning of these rights, the concern for the protection of these rights calls for each of us to exercise civility and restraint and judgment," which sounds very nihilistic multicultural but then also he says, "No God condones terror. No grievance justifies the taking of innocent lives, or the oppression of those who are weaker or fewer in number," which is more direct.

and it's a national prayer breakfast where he's trying to answer the question "how can faith lead to such horrible things," so it's not like he's talking to the congress about the threat of religious extremism in the middle east and cautioning that, hey, we've done some bad things too so let's not get too worked up.

it's a national prayer breakfast

Say what?

Remarks by the President at National Prayer Breakfast

Washington Hilton
Washington, D.C.

9:13 A.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Well, good morning. Giving all praise and honor to God. It is wonderful to be back with you here. I want to thank our co-chairs, Bob and Roger. These two don’t always agree in the Senate, but in coming together and uniting us all in prayer, they embody the spirit of our gathering today.

i think non-americans don't realize exactly how religious we are over here lol

i think his comments are apposite if he's countering the argument that ISIS's violence is somehow intrinsic to islam, which is definitely an argument that's frequently bandied about. and i think that's what he's doing.

it's a weird argument (that ISIS's violence is intrinsic to Islam) just bc it's so unnecessary. there are 1.6 billion muslims in the world. radical islam only needs to attract 1% of that faith population for it to be a serious threat. an ideology that only attracts 1% of a faith group is obv not an intrinsic or dominant ideology by any means. i do somewhat buy the argument when it's phrased as that Islam as a faith community is ultimately the only group that can fully marginalize the ideology - but it doesn't make any sense to blame one billion five hundred eighty-four million people for the actions of sixteen million. (or however the figures ultimately work out)

yeah i agree it's a silly argument. but hard and soft versions of it can be heard pretty frequently in the mass media and in common conversation, so i imagine obama feels he had to address it, even if it's a little oblique as is his wont.

How can the intrinsic value of any metaphysical idea or religion ever be discussed or proven, though?

What makes one denomination more authentic or closer to its (almost made-up) essence?

I mean, I respect all religions, but you guys talk about all of this as if it can be proven. E.g., "My God is the real God--not yours", "My beliefs about X religion are authentic and yours aren't".

As an agnostic, I find those arguments hard to believe or take seriously.

I feel the same way. I don't raise the point much because I figure probably better that we make that claim than the reverse, but it doesn't hold much philosophical weight for me.