jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

There's probably <i>something</i> in the water/air/food, but vaccine adjunctives don't seem to be the culprit.

The Japanese eliminated mercury containing thimerosal in MMR vaccination by 1993, but it had little effect on the trend of autism diagnoses.
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/noMMR.jpg

ple of hours and nothing more, but i'm somewhat certain that this isn't the ceiling on my possible reaction. my wife likes peanut but we won't have it in the house. i was worried about our kid inheriting it from me but he was served a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at a friend's place while he was over there and was 100% okay so bullet dodged i guess (i was still pissed tho.) the shit's no joke!

We had the same worry about my daughter, but there seems to be little or no genetic element to it. She's free of it, and our allergist found some research showingeven identical twins only have very low correlation between nut allergies (less than 10%)

Autism = older fathers, but rich white people don't wanna hear that.

I don't know if "=" is the sign you're really looking for there, though there's some correlation

Seriously. Our bodies fall apart faster than many people realize. Fertility rates drop in women starting at around age 29 or so, then really plummet after 35, which must be a challenge for someone who has, say, gone to grad school and landed a good job and wants to start a family. God only knows what's going on in men as they start pushing 40, 50. Surely there must be studies correlating parent age and autism rates, right?

Also the idea that older fathers and autism are phenomenon somehow limited to white people is gross and erases some very real and very serious problems, ie http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/08/23/342688183/for-parents-of-young-black-men-with-autism-extra-fear-about-police.

Real question: are older men really having more kids than they used to? Both sets of my (very catholic) great-grandparents were popping them out well into their 40s. Sure the age that people have their first kids are higher in the first world just not sure if overall the median age of parents has shifted much...

why would fertility have an effect on probability of autism specifically?

I dunno specifically, but this is the webmd overview:

Making a baby requires a healthy egg, but eggs become more scarce as you age. You're born with about a million eggs, but most of them never mature. By the time you reach puberty, you're down to half your original supply, and the number continues to fall each year. And not every egg that survives can make a baby. Even in your prime, about half of all eggs have chromosomal abnormalities, and the proportion of eggs with genetic problems increases as you age, explains Dr. David Adamson, president of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. Eventually, you simply run out of viable eggs. "As of today, we have no way of changing that," he says. "It's the natural course of human life."

So I guess "even in your prime, about half of all eggs have chromosomal abnormalities, and the proportion of eggs with genetic problems increases as you age" is the link between all sorts of potential things and age.

My limited understanding of this is that there is less correlation with mother's age than father's for autism.

so i should freeze my sperm now, is what you're saying

tryin to terrify me this AM?

xp (not scared of the frozen sperm)

so i should freeze my sperm now, is what you're saying
--I dunno. (amateurist)

Until we find out old sperm results in some other thing, I guess.

Meant cold rather than old

spreading peanut butter over every visible surface of my environment atm

Hultman, C. M., Sandin, S., Levine, S. Z., Lichtenstein, P., & Reichenberg, A. (2011). Advancing paternal age and risk of autism: new evidence from a population-based study and a meta-analysis of epidemiological studies. Molecular psychiatry, 16(12), 1203-1212.

Offspring of men aged greater than or equal to 50 years were 2.2 times (95% confidence interval: 1.26–3.88: P=0.006) more likely to have autism than offspring of men aged less than or equal to 29 years, after controlling for maternal age and documented risk factors for autism.

http://i57.tinypic.com/314aviu.gif

why is it worse for california?!

more likely to lie about age?

Could simply be the comparative likelihood of older vs. younger parents to seek a diagnosis, or different diagnostic criteria in the local medical culture.

what happens to that chart when the men over 50 spread peanut butter on their balls before ejaculating?

I bet there would be a reaction.

chart sticks to taint

X-posts: Yes, the "=" was a bit flippant and not intended to be a complete description of the noted corellation and possible cautions. This, however: "Also the idea that older fathers and autism are phenomenon somehow limited to white people is gross and erases some very real and very serious problems" is absolutely true but that idea is not in anyway what I was saying with "rich white people don't wanna hear that".

strike "cautions", replace with "causations". Tired and fighting the flu, against which I am not immunized because then aliens would steal my luggage.

California moving to make vaccinations mandatory: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-bill-would-eliminate-personal-6062871.php

wow. hope it passes. this will probably bring the debate way out into the open (more so than it already is), and that's a good thing, i think.

Dems control 2/3rds of the legislature, this will pass

i don't think this is partisan issue, is it? some of the districts with the lowest vaccination rates are firmly liberal districts.

i mean, mississippi has the best vaccination rate.

there are no majority anti-vaxxer districts, is the thing.

also there's zero bipartisanship, so don't expect any GOP districts to vote for this

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/chi-measles-palatine-20150205-story.html

cool maps

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/mapping-measles-vaccine-coverage-around-the-country

A former acquaintance posts on FB that her MMR vaccines sent her into cardiac arrest and begged the pro-vaxxers to quit bullying people over a personal choice.

I dunno if the vaxxes really did it but the "personal choice" shit infuriates me because your personal choice impacts others and is made on behalf of your spawn.

This friend wants to play it off like it's the same thing as getting enraged that your friend isn't a fan of Huey Lewis' s Sports.

maybe if hating Sports gave babies measles.

http://observationdeck.io9.com/melanies-marvelous-measles-is-a-book-for-children-that-1659129577

omg

fucking furious rn

Freddy's Fucking Fury.

ughhhhhh

Melanie's Marvelous Measles

― kate78, Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:03 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I linked that over two years ago, nerds! Try to keep up! ;)

dag

that author's story is incredibly sad - i think in her case i can kinda understand how she arrived at her anti-vaxx stance, even if i think that people like her are still contributing to a dangerous situation: her kid died without any kind of diagnosis, and the only correlation she could find was the vaccine schedule, which equalled causation in her mind.

My friend Sarah wrote this. It's good. https://medium.com/the-archipelago/im-autistic-and-believe-me-its-a-lot-better-than-measles-78cb039f4bea

that's an excellent piece

Yeah I just shared the fuck outta that.

Although quite a few of my friends have kids on the autistic spectrum, none of the parents affected think it's caused by vaccines. I have only one (old, school) friend who is anti-vaxx, who is always sharing links about big-pharma conspiracies relating to mass vaccination. She home-schools (her kids act and and model) and is a bit Jesusy (more from the left, wouldn't presume to tell other women about reproductive issues) but nobody's responding AT ALL to her shared links.

I caught measles after my vaccination, but in hindsight it was probably because I was immuno-suppressed (in fact, silently growing a kidney tumour that wasn't discovered until I was four).

The Toronto Star claims HPV vaccine Gardasil has a "dark side": http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/05/hpv-vaccine-gardasil-has-a-dark-side-star-investigation-finds.html

Article is written with the apparent belief that "post hoc ergo propter hoc" is the highest standard of evidence. Examples of harm supposedly linked to the vaccine include:
-- a teenager who was "allergic to metal" who developed fibromyalgia supposedly in reaction to the aluminum salts in the vaccine
-- a 14 year old who had a heart attack (cardiac arrest, given the description) 9 days after receiving her first dose
-- a 13 year old who developed "egg-size lumps on the soles of her feet, her joints swelled and her limbs twitched uncontrollably" and who had "digestive problems" diagnosed with an eating disorder
-- a 29 year old who developed nausea, "weakness" and migraines
-- an unspecified number of patients who have "pain and issues", "doctors told them the illnesses were imagined, that they had eating or anxiety disorders, that the problems were in their head"
-- a 14 year old who had what sounds like a migraine 16 days after her first dose ("Annabelle “came out of (her) room disoriented, she could hardly walk, she couldn’t speak. She was mumbling.” Annabelle was also vomiting and complained of a bad headache. Morin took her daughter to the hospital, where a brain scan turned up nothing. Soon Annabelle felt better.), and then was found drowned in the bathtub 15 days after her second dose

I'm not convinced that any of those cases have anything to do with the vaccine.

Dr Jen Gunter (OBGYN, pain specialist) wrote a couple of very well measured responses putting the Star's report in context:
https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/toronto-star-claims-hpv-vaccine-unsafe-science-says-the-toronto-star-is-wrong/
https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/explaining-gardasil-girls-and-hpv-vaccine-safety-to-the-toronto-star-and-heather-mallick/

The second of those references some pushback from one of the Star's op-ed columnists, Heather Mallick, who wrote an above-it-all article that managed to be pro-vaccination while suggesting that vaccinations are a shades-of-grey issue, with Gardasil a case of where there's smoke there's fire (and also that anyone dismissing the relevance of these claims of vaccine-related harm was failing to listen to the pain of the young women reported in the article, guilty of "Tea Party thinking", etc): http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/06/vaccine-debate-is-one-we-shouldnt-even-be-having-mallick.html

Mallick mentioned "Bad Science" author Dr Ben Goldacre in her article, as someone showing how statistics can be misused in medicine. She reached out to him for support on twitter. Goldacre did not take her side in the debate, calling her out at length for "crass, outdated, irresponsible journalism": https://storify.com/karengeier/when-teaching-yourself-statistics-is-no-match-for

A swarm of twitter discussion ensued, mostly from Canadian MDs and PhDs, who Mallick has been blocking one by one, because she considers that kind of response to be "pro-vaccination trolling" and wants twitter to be about "sunlight".

Good job, Canada.

It's kinda weird when shit we've been talking about on & off for years on here suddenly gets thrust into the (inter)national spotlight.