AGING PARENTS

jfc

O_o

It's nice but it ain't the Ritz, y'know? Medicare does not cover long term care, and the nicer places don't take Medicaid, which you'd have to get really fucking poor to qualify for anyway.

I am going to manage my own dottage (lol no kids) by moving to Finland and/or Taiwan, where they take good care of old people on the cheap.

Or the Netherlands where I can just smoke a nice joint before being euthanized in a dignified manner.

Holy shit that's insane. TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS? What the fuck is wrong with this country.

Or the Netherlands where I can just smoke a nice joint before being euthanized in a dignified manner.

By the time the Baby Boomer cohort goes through old age, I expect someone to create real-world suicide booths.

Wow, those nursing homes are expensive!! I moved in with Dad to watch over him after heart surgery, thankfully between the two of us we (barely) had enough for that.

I guess it is sexist that I'd be expected to drop everything for Dad (now deceased), but I was closest to him and I loved him that much. I try not to be bitter about no one else putting up much of an effort. That's just how I was raised.

Of course I'm still having trouble recovering from that economically. But at least Dad had a real roof over his head in his last years.

Also when Dad was recovering in the hospital, the doctor called us all in a meeting so we could learn what an artificial heart does, what it's like living with a person who has one.

Thankfully that was a decision we never had to make as the doctor decided he didn't need one. It was terrifying, though, having to sit through the presentation.

Before my mother switched over to hospice care, her monthly cost was pushing $9000/month once you accounted for the medications and everything else. There's a reason why the Walmarts and Costcos around the retirement clusters in Orange County all heavily stock adult diapers.

so my dad died last week after more than a year of extreme Parkinson agony. A relief for him, in a way, but man this is tough.
Now I need to figure out what to do with my mom who thinks she's autonomous but really isn't, especially considering her severe alcoholism.
My dad being sick justified the presence of a lot of home care and now that he's gone I don't really know how I can convince my mom to have someone at home who could discreetly watch over her for me.

My condolences Baaderonixx, that's tough.

Don't have a lot of advice to offer, though when my nan became a widow, she too had to 'warm up' to accepting help for quite some time. In her case it was trying to be strong, and not admit incapabilities or weaknesses. It didn't take too long for her to see she actually needed help though. But your mother is probably younger.

In any case, all the best man.

I know this is "aging parents" and not "aging grandparents" but my parents are about to the point of throwing up their hands. I have two grandfathers, 88 and 91 years of age, who are stubborn old men who live alone and refuse to change their ways. My parents check on my mom's dad every week or two, steal his clothes to launder them, make sure there aren't too many mice and that the house is livable (he lives in an old farmhouse).

Apparently some people driving by saw him next to the mailbox down by the road, fallen over, sometime in the last day and helped him to the house but he refused to be taken to the hospital. The neighbors checked on him later, and he'd made it no further than the chair inside the front door and accepted the fact he needed to go seek treatment. He had a bladder infection that apparently led to sepsis, is responding to treatment in the hospital, but apparently might lose some fingers from having been out in the cold. My uncle is apparently who was called first, so my parents aren't even heading out to see him for now. They do more than they could be expected to, and I think having him safely in the hospital, and with my uncle as the first point of contact, is actually an improvement in some ways even if his current condition is bad.

My other grandfather, my dad's dad, is the 91 year old and very much the stubborn obnoxious WW2 veteran type. He fell over in his kitchen the other day and my dad had to drive over to lift him off the floor, since he was stuck there. He's fallen before and he has one of those medic alert bracelets and has seriously had paramedics come just to get him off the floor.

I am emotionally supportive of my parents but there's not a lot I can do other than moral support.

This is very hard on the people like your parents who see their job as keeping your grandfathers healthy and alive, but as I age further and have watched my parents' generation age and die I could definitely see myself going in this direction, too.

Unless you are a prodigy of longevity, at 89 and 91 the idea of 'health' has lost most of the meaning it had for you earlier in life and its place is now occupied by something wholly nebulous and indeterminate. You scarcely recall what 'health' is any more or how to pursue it. otoh, death has also changed meaning in fundamental ways, and seems like something very close and quotidian, a presence so familiar you could almost draw its face without looking at the paper.

What looks like pure obstinacy, and a kind of fatalism that would be very inappropriate in a younger person, is a somewhat realistic reaction to being so close to the end of life. They know it's a fight they can't win.

My parents have vowed to move into a community-based living situation at a certain age threshold and have been strongly contemplating moves past that. They see it as incredibly self-centered, afaik, and are kind of resigned to letting this play out since they were unable to force many issues earlier in life, partially due to my uncles not really agreeing to having productive talks.

I guess what I'm saying is that every time I have the idea "I could definitely see myself going in this direction" I shudder and add things on to my living will. This is a really bad direction.

xp: Yeah, that bridge was crossed a while back when your grandfathers chose to continue to live alone, and didn't put an adequate support structure around themselves to let them die in place without calling on your parents for constant help in their final year(s). Americans don't do death very well.

added: My wife and I know we can't lean on children to bail us out, so we are planning what supports we'll need past age 70 to 75, as best we can.

I don't see why you can't talk about caring for other elders, such as grandparents, here.

Recently lost my grandma, who was 98. She drove a car until she was 96. Frankly, I was shocked when she passed. She was still walking on her own. Don't smoke and eat a lot of grapefruit.

Hospice folks are the best.

Also, that "death smell" that everyone talks about on AllNurses.com is a very real thing.
http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/does-death-have-452535.html

I guess what I'm saying is that we're in the endgame

Oh, ET.

Hi there - long time reader, first time caller. My mom is 70. She had emergency surgery yesterday because of a bowel obstruction, which turned out to be NOT CANCER (phew) but rather a huge but exploded benign ovarian cyst made of pus. Apparently she had polycystic ovaries when much, much younger and one just stuck around, growing to the size of a softball until a week ago, when it went BOOM and she started to feel unwell. She's a total stubborn Minnesota Swede don't-bother-the-doctor type, so am relieved she got help and will get better.

Exactly one week ago we got the "you better stick around - don't make any plans" message. The hospice nurse noticed "the smell" (see link upthread) and irrespective of age, gender, nationality, etc. that distinct smell is the early signal that the body is closing up shop. You've probably heard the stories about cats and dogs being present around the dying and that smell what they zero in on. I'd describe it as an odd hybrid of old mushrooms and burnt sugar. Hospice folks are trained to detect it.

I visited my mom on Christmas day and given her overall situation (she's 90) - she was doing pretty good. We opened up cards (she remembered who they were all from), had a conversation, and she could still manage to eat and drink. One week later and you could obviously feel that master fader steadily being lowered. On Monday she managed a "Happy new year!" By Thursday she wasn't noticeably responding at all.

Last night we'd been playing for a couple hours last night when I just stopped, put my guitar down, and turned off my amps. Nothing alarmist, just a "I need to stop" and my gf and I were talking for a few minutes when I said "the phone could ring anytime." No more than twenty seconds later my sister calls: "It's over."

I was in Trader Joe's earlier in the day and impulsively bought a bouquet of sunflowers for the house. I don't really do that and I had no clue that my mom was going to pass a couple hours later, but they're sure brightening the place up.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8654/15635602014_a115d578b9_z.jpg

sorry man.

sorry elvis

My condolences - its been a long road for you.

RIP and wishing you the best

I'm very sorry for your loss Chris. Wishing you the very best.

That photo is wonderful by the way. A treasure.

Ive been following but too scared to pipe up. Now's the time - first, my condolences, and sympathies.

My dad just told me he has a serious neurological disease, made me promise not to tell anyone (aside from partner, who I had to negotiate for) and a week after my trip home I'm kinda quietly freaking out. Handling it, but I can tell I'm not feeling right.

I'm glad your mom is at peace, Elvis. I believe in premonitions too, that part was beautiful.

<3 LL, that is so hard

Not even close to what you all are going through, but the partner of a close older relative of ours was diagnosed with a pretty bad case of prostate cancer. Our side of the family was sworn to secrecy while he waited to tell his side of the family after the holidays were over.

That made for some weird gatherings.

i'm sorry for your loss, chris, but also relieved for both you and your mother - the suffering is now hopefully over.

Hugs to you, Elvis, and to you, LL.

I hope you're able to find some peace in her passing, Elvis.

<3 LL!

My maternal grandfather is going to be in the hospital for at least a couple weeks, and my uncle is checking around for a spot at assisted living facilities, which is excellent.

sorry Elvis - went through this exactly one month ago, hope you can stay strong, focus on all the things your mother did and saw and come to the conclusion that it's been a good life. I know that thought helped me realise that to some extent there was nothing to be sad about my dad's passing.

my father-in-law is out of the hospital!

now he gets two weeks in a nursing home for rehab, and hopefully goes back home after that.

so my dad died last week after more than a year of extreme Parkinson agony. A relief for him, in a way, but man this is tough.
Now I need to figure out what to do with my mom who thinks she's autonomous but really isn't, especially considering her severe alcoholism.
My dad being sick justified the presence of a lot of home care and now that he's gone I don't really know how I can convince my mom to have someone at home who could discreetly watch over her for me.

― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Friday, 19 December 2014 19:46 (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So eventually I stayed with my mom for a bit more than a month to sort out all the paperwork, inheritance, etc.
I thought that after a month of complete abstinence my mom would manage to stay sober for a bit, but now, barely three days after me leaving, she's back to heavy drinking.
This is really the nighmare scenario since, as I posted a month ago, now ther'e really no-one to watch over her (I live a 4-5 hour drive away). When drinkinh she's prone to falling over at home and in the street, epilepsy, getting robbed, etc.
Pondering what to do - I don't really have space to have her stay with me at present and paying somebody just to watch over her seems a bit crazy and unaffordable.
I've just bought a new flat in which I haven't even moved into yet but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't already re-sell it, use the inheritance money and buy a big suburban house in which my mom could live with me and my wife. Seems a bit crazy to have my mom live with me permanently at this age (me in my thirties and her in her sixties) but I'm at my wit's end really...

Oh Baad I'm so sorry. That's really my biggest fear - my dad passing before my mom and me not knowing what the hell to do with her. Is there anyone that lives near her that you can enlist to maybe check up on her regularly? Not a carer but a friend or something?

thx ENBB - not really, my mom lives in a big condo in the big city but is pretty isolated - her friends are old, frail and scattered. I think the only solution is to have her live with me or a

oops
... or at least close to me, but I realise that, to some extent, I'm procrastinating in starting this process (ie. sell her house, drive her back with me kicking and screaming) because sub-consciously i'm still hoping/expecting validation from her, that she'd wake up sober one day and say "sure, you're right, I'll come with you". Clearly taht's never gonna happen. Everyone around me is telling me that I'm past the stage where I need worry about her agreeemnt and her comfort and that I should force things through. Pretty difficult to accept though.

Respectfully, rearranging your whole life in order to care for an addict doesn't seem like a good long-term strategy.

well I can't imagine that said addict will live that long tbh - but you're right, problem though is I don't see any alternatives...
My mom is clearly not fit to live on her own but otoh legally I am in no position to impose anything on her (eg. if I dragged her and put her in a elderly home, she'd escape immediately).
Some people tell me that I should resign myself to accept the situation and let her drink herself to death but, besides the moral aspect, I know that I'd just be in a state of constant panic which would prevent me from living my life all the same
Anyway sorry for hijacking this thread with my freak-outs.

I get it. I mean it wasn't my mom but it was someone I cared about, and I've seen other ppl go through similar.

"besides the moral aspect" -- do you think it's immoral to let someone choose addiction/accept that people sometimes choose addiction?

That's very similar to what my parents are going through with my grandfathers. I think, luckily, that my mom's dad is going to end up in an assisted living place after his release from the hospital, which is really what he's needed for years.

I think the addiction part in b's story there is an extenuating circumstance, but it's just another factor that makes someone unable to care for him/herself. If you can't convince someone that it's in their best interest to change their life, you kind of have to wait until their life changes to the extent it's no longer viable. It doesn't mean that you don't want them to have some help or at least compassion, and cutting off all help is really difficult. I think it's a matter of finding the balance where you feel like a decent person without being an enabler.

Also there's something about the end of life that makes me want to throw all the usual things I think are true about addiction/addicts -- extra so when it's a parent. Addiction may be involved but it's just not the primary thing. I totally understand the impulse to house mom under these circumstances.

my main goal atm is getting my parents out of their crumbling house and into a place they are safe and comfortable

do you think it's immoral to let someone choose addiction/accept that people sometimes choose addiction?

Tricky question - not sure where exactly I stand on this on principle, but I get your drift of course.
In the case of aging parents, I still think there is I have some kind of moral responsibility to protect them from themselves (be it from addiction or anything really).
In my mom's specific case, decades of drinking and a pretty horrific accident 4 years ago have significantly affected her intellectual abilities, so I'm not sure I would ever think of her as "choosing" addiction.

People who -choose- addiction can be VERY controlling, even if they are not physically strong.

People suffering from dementia and aging/ illness-related tantrums can also be so manipulative that if you seek therapy for it - as I did - they will tell you to quit feeling guilty and get the hell out. This is what I went through with Dad, but he was so sick I decided to stick with him until he died. My brother and sister bailed on him, though. Can't say I blame them.

problem though is I don't see any alternatives...

When every choice open to you comes with deeply undesirable consequences, the only thing you can do is make the least bad choice that seems most manageable and get on with it. It sounds like you understand this already.

btw, it is ok to feel wretched about the whole thing. that's just one more lousy piece of the situation you'll have to manage as best you can -- and while it may be tempting to shove those feelings aside as unproductive, my experience has been that it works better to find at least a small slice of brain space and time to acknowledge them on a somewhat regular basis.

good luck. I'm sure you're going to do about as well as anyone could in the circumstances.

tbh - I think my mom would probably be diagnosed with mild alcoholic dementia at this point. I guess I've been denying it for a while because dementia seems to imply "CRAY-ZAY!", but it's clear that her short term memory is shot and complex reasoning, planning or decision-making are all out of reach. I don't know to which extent psychiatric help would be of help

Wouldn't that be actual physical damage from alcohol? I'm not sure what is done about that. Epithets like "crazy" aren't helpful.

"dementia" is just a term that means a loss of mental ability, not insanity. psychiatric help is unlikely to restore her mental abilities. even quitting drinking would be more in the nature of slowing the damage rather than reversing it.