n/m I found it
― rising stones cross (anagram), Sunday, 7 December 2014 21:46 (nine years ago) link
That's 13 years now the Guardian has been, if you will, 'worse than it used to be'.
― Letsby Avenue (Tom D.), Sunday, 7 December 2014 21:51 (nine years ago) link
It was still a pile of wank in the Manchester Guardian years, it is a faulty premise for a thread title.
― xelab, Sunday, 7 December 2014 21:59 (nine years ago) link
Are you suggesting that a pile of wank is the worst the universe has to offer?
― Alba, Sunday, 7 December 2014 22:30 (nine years ago) link
Was just reading a WW1 book and read how similarly appallingly full of shit/gung ho the MG was to the right wing press at the time. Albeit one written by a loathsome prick who writes for the Telegraph!
― xelab, Sunday, 7 December 2014 22:39 (nine years ago) link
Carl Fogarty wins I’m A Celebrity1 comment
this is one of the 12 most important stories apparently
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:27 (nine years ago) link
the manchester guardian was more sceptical of the case for war than the conservative press press prior to and during the july crisis
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:29 (nine years ago) link
The Manchester Guardian declared that Britain was in no danger of being dragged into the Austro-Serbian conflict by ‘treaties of alliance’ and famously announced that Manchester cared for Belgrade as little as Belgrade cared for Manchester.
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:31 (nine years ago) link
then the war started
the observer of course supported the 2003 iraq war
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:33 (nine years ago) link
I can't the find the offending quote from the Max Hastings book by the MG after a search, so I am probably talking shite!
"I write for the Guardian," said Sir Max Hastings in 2005, "because it is read by the new establishment"
― xelab, Monday, 8 December 2014 02:29 (nine years ago) link
I had a few WW1 books on the go simultaneously recently is my excuse!
― xelab, Monday, 8 December 2014 02:40 (nine years ago) link
no i am sure you're right about the liberal papers during the war, once it started there was a strong level of unanimity and the differences prior to it were erased but even some of the conservative papers were sceptical until the declaration of war
that quote from the excellent 'the sleepwalkers' by christopher clark
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 02:45 (nine years ago) link
Enjoying the Guardian's Will And Kate coverage and how it's stretching journalists:
The evening crescendoed with the long-speculated meeting between Beyonce and Jay-Z and Kate and William midway through the third quarter.
― Twist of Caliphate (Bob Six), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 10:32 (nine years ago) link
xp (and a bit of topic) The Sleepwalkers is excellent, apart from the title, which seems inappropriate. IMO Clark shows that the protagonists did anything but sleepwalk into the conflict (though the fact that all the senior figures involved were apparently suffering from heart disease/strokes/epilepsy, insomniacs, workaholics, neurotics, alcoholics, or some combination of these wasn't a great help)
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 11:32 (nine years ago) link
the title is perfectly appropriate and given his quotations from musil, schweig, roth etc is almost certainly an allusion to the novel by hermann broch
According to Broch, “sleepwalkers” refer to a gap between the death of an ethical system and the birth of another, as much as a somnambulist finds himself in a state between sleep and awake
this is attested to throughout the book, the transition from the bismarck archetype and the measured realpolitik of the 19th c with its delicate multipolar settlement towards a bloc identity that was more paranoid, brittle and reactive in which the incipient demise of the ottoman and then austrian empires a sort of fait accompli
― Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 04:28 (nine years ago) link
*zweig*
― Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 04:30 (nine years ago) link
interesting, thanks, I hadn't appreciated this
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 07:43 (nine years ago) link
also he explains his choice of title in the very last sentence of the book - "...the protagonists of 1914 were sleepwalkers, watchful but unseeing, haunted by dreams, yet blind to the reality of the horror they were about to bring into the world.”
― anonanon, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 08:04 (nine years ago) link
that's what sits less well with me, the idea the protagonists were "unseeing". I think a lot of accusations can be leveled at them, but that's not one of them. Anyway these are quibbles, it's a great book.
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 09:09 (nine years ago) link
Alan R to step down as editor next year, after 20 years.
― Alba, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:03 (nine years ago) link
Eagerly anticipating the sacking of every frivolous lifestyle columnist and the Guardian's impending return to golden age ERM-era severity.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:20 (nine years ago) link
Pretty sure I'll get the big job, on a platform of more Adel Taarabt and more Hold Steady.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:31 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2014/dec/10/most-expensive-photograph-ever-hackneyed-tasteless
Photography is not an art. It is a technology. We have no excuse to ignore this obvious fact in the age of digital cameras, when the most beguiling high-definition images and effects are available to millions. My iPad can take panoramic views that are gorgeous to look at. Does that make me an artist? No, it just makes my tablet one hell of a device.
what a Hot Take!
― ey mk II, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:38 (nine years ago) link
Challop is free
― ledge, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 18:49 (nine years ago) link
hey i did not expect this thread to make me feel better about my arbitrary purchase of the sleepwalkers the other day but it has so theres that
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 23:43 (nine years ago) link
I bought the broch sleepwalkers the other day as it happens but it was for a gift
― tweet deems ur mad f this (wins), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 23:53 (nine years ago) link
The Sleepwalkers really is excellent.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:52 (nine years ago) link
My library stock a copy of The Sleepwalkers because of me :-)
I thought Clark's book alluded to the novel. xp
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:54 (nine years ago) link
I couldn't get through The Sleepwalkers. I must be stupid.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Thursday, 11 December 2014 13:21 (nine years ago) link
The novel is ok-ish. Loved some of the last part but when I tried to re-read the first part it was a tad mundane.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 12 December 2014 00:17 (nine years ago) link
Garcia opened investigations into the conduct of five individuals during the bidding process including three current executive committee members – √Ångel Mar√-a Villar Llona of Spain, Belgium’s Michel D’Hooghe and Thailand’s Wowari Makudi
― Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Saturday, 20 December 2014 01:35 (nine years ago) link
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/12/19/1419018001125/2b8d711f-ee90-405b-bbb8-92034cd9aee9-620x372.jpeg
What we’ve learned from a year in webchats …4 comments
― Enterprise Lesotho (nakhchivan), Monday, 22 December 2014 00:39 (nine years ago) link
to return to ww1, the guardian helpfully publishes a shit article by congenital moron and prison rape apologist michael white about why someone who died 16 years before it began is, actually, to blame
http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/dec/31/bismarck-escaped-blame-first-world-war
― tone pulising (nakhchivan), Saturday, 3 January 2015 00:16 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/04/is-your-five-year-old-bigot-racist
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Monday, 5 January 2015 13:24 (nine years ago) link
Was a very sensible article, I thought.
― Alba, Monday, 5 January 2015 18:32 (nine years ago) link
yeah, it really is. did you read beyond the headline, neil?
― Rallsballs@onelist.com (stevie), Monday, 5 January 2015 19:15 (nine years ago) link
This jumped out at me:
But isn’t the most likely explanation that they heard these choice phrases from the adults around them
Possibly. But it seems at least equally likely that they learned them from other children, who in turn learned them from other children, in a chain that eventually stretches back to an adult some time in the dim past.
I say this because schoolyards have an oral tradition and a culture which is preserved by kids and is passed on from kid to kid. That oral tradition contains a lot more than rope-skipping rhymes. It includes taunts and a lot of similar ugly stuff. The major criterion for a taunt to survive and thrive on a playground is that it is effective; it hurts; it belittles; it is a weapon that cuts the taunted kid in a tender spot. Racist taunts fit that criterion very well.
But it doesn't really matter how or from whom the racist taunts are learned, because the point is for the adults to teach the kids to stop using them, even though the kids obviously know them and know how to use them. That's just SOP for any responsible elementary school teacher.
― earthface, windface and fireface (Aimless), Monday, 5 January 2015 19:33 (nine years ago) link
guilty as charged, didn't get past the clickbait title and URL
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Monday, 5 January 2015 20:20 (nine years ago) link
now I've read it, it's fair enough I suppose
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Monday, 5 January 2015 20:22 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/31/david-duke-former-ku-klux-klan-leader-steve-scalise
Guardia also had this David Duke interview, which annoyed me a bit. Aw, he regrets having been a Grand Dragon in the Klan. They're taking him at his word. As if he's somehow better now.
Still if you're not from the US you can learn about David Duke.
― Whitney Di-Ennial (I M Losted), Monday, 5 January 2015 20:31 (nine years ago) link
Read between the lines and there's no way they're taking him at his word. It's a deadpan give-em-enough-rope interview with lots of damning quotes from Lawrence Powell. You don't need the writer to step in and say "BTW I think he's a racist" to get the message.
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Tuesday, 6 January 2015 11:54 (nine years ago) link
Is it a good idea for the Guardian to reprint the Charlie Hebdo cartoon of Muhammad on their website right now?
― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 12:01 (nine years ago) link
yes
― local eire man (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 12:21 (nine years ago) link
Violence does not legitimise racism in the guise of 'free speech', so quite obviously not.
― oppet, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:31 (nine years ago) link
They might have removed it, my colleague can't see it but it's still on my browser, maybe cached.
― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:36 (nine years ago) link
The Guardian picture in question was someone holding the paper with the cartoon on the front, which doesn't seem massively controversial in context. The suggestion (being repeated by half of Twitter) that all papers in Europe should republish the full set of cartoons as a point of principle would be different, though. The objective of terrorist outrages like this isn't just to cow publications into silence, it's to provoke an 'us vs them' reaction to further alienate the Muslim minority.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:37 (nine years ago) link
They do seem to have removed it though.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:38 (nine years ago) link
it's to provoke an 'us vs them' reaction to further alienate the Muslim minority
If there isn't a right-wing protest later I'll eat my chapeau :(
― Madchen, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:43 (nine years ago) link
What gives you that idea? Not being snarky, generally interested. Because I don't see why they would think that provoking an "us vs. them" reaction is going to help their cause.
― you've got no fans you've got no ground (anagram), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:50 (nine years ago) link
More people offended by cartoons / hostile rhetoric = more money / support / recruits.
Their objective is to show Muslims that there is no place in French / British / American / Russian society for them so they should fight for a central united cause. They have even less to gain from harmonious multiculturalism than the far right.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 13:56 (nine years ago) link