C/D LENA DUNHAM (THE DEFINITIVE POLL)

they trolled this board good

honestly, to someone like williamson, she is a deviant already. just by being lena dunham, being naked on TV and violating expectations for what women should be like in public. i don't think she is a radical, transgressive figure, but it's clear why she is a lightning rod for the right. we should not participate in their narrative.

centrist democrats are bad fwiw. this issue isn't about that.

also with the "white feminist" criticism, it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast. why is she held to this uniquely high standard?

No one who has been given a mass media franchise of his/her own can be defined as a radical, transgressive figure. But when you consider that Dan Quayle made political hay with evangelicals by decrying Murphy Brown in his basic stump speech for months on end, Lena Dunham is nothing but red meat for the reactionary right.

it isnt their narrative

woc activists have stayed calling her out for shit

to say that they are just picking up on this thread is erasure

she is not the only person taken to task for this, come on dude

from the daily beast article:

“A Black woman could not have written what Lena did. She would not have the space to argue context. She would not have anyone championing her. She would certainly not be given some benefit of the doubt about childhood exploration because Black people’s innocence is often denied, even when we’re 7.”

this is an important observation. but the response shouldn't be to subject lena dunham to the same intolerance a hypothetical black lena dunham would face. the way to even it out is to defend black women when their stories are received in racist, uncharitable ways.

also i think the critiques of her not paying performers for her book tour and making insensitive comments to rolling stone and elsewhere are fundamentally different from the calls to brand her as an abuser. the latter seems vicious and unfair.

you seriously dont think that outing someone against their will is abusive behavior?

Treeship you are Lena Dunham and I claim my 5

it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast

Treeship have you ever heard of shows called Friends or Saturday Night Live

she often seems like she's on some "I'm not a sociopath I'm just honest" shit

Just to name two

Also pretty much every show on television ever

there weren't massive twitter campaigns urging people to "stop excusing" lorne michaels and seizing upon sexual assault allegations derived from mendacious readings of his memoir by right wing extremists in order to brand him as a shit human being.

this is going beyond interrogating some of the problematic aspects of her as a public figure. it's about condemning her. it doesn't feel like the kind of culture i want to be a part of.

O I C, my bad, I thought the phrase "literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast" meant something else, carry on

do you think just maybe there's been some outcry from activists because lena's bullshit is so celebrated as #strongcourageouswomanhood and feminism, unlike say that of lorne michaels?!

Yes, her most strident high-profile fans, with their spats with women of colour, their puff pieces on how she's redefining feminism, etc, seem to poison the tone of the conversation more than her actual work does.

I don't really consider her a feminist in any meaningful way tbh

in general, chronic narcissists are not really concerned w causes that extend beyond themselves

Oh good, here's the bit (again) where we get to decide who is or isn't a feminist.

i'm not familiar with the degree to which she's courted this designation as a figurehead for feminism. to me she is the creator of the show GIRLS which is very different from other shows on tv, partly because she is a young women and young women rarely get that kind of artistic control in the world of film or television.

she has said and done things that are not good and that i don't agree with, but i am sort of uncomfortable with demands that she be a perfect ambassador for feminism. it seems like too much to put on a creative writer. also, phil D she is clearly subject to a unique amount of scrutiny due to the fact that she occupies a unique niche in the culture. and at least from the right, there is sexism to this but i think also people in general are more comfortable critiquing her than they would a male television auteur. this isn't even debatable for me, it seems obvious.

see? shes a #strongwoman and therefore should be called out for racism or anything else fucked up, to call her out is anti-feminist and right wing!

people in general are more comfortable critiquing her than they would a male television auteur.

imagine, if you will, a male television auteur writing a memoir in which he detailed prying open his little sister's vagina

or masturbing next to a sister six years his junior, who he then compares to a hot water bottle

there weren't massive twitter campaigns urging people to "stop excusing" lorne michaels and seizing upon sexual assault allegations derived from mendacious readings of his memoir by right wing extremists in order to brand him as a shit human being.

there's an irony in defending lena dunham for feminist reasons while suggesting that feminists who've long chafed at dunham's narcissistic indifference to the pain and sensitivities of others are only responding to the right-wing perception of dunham's work and not the work itself

^^^^^^^^^^YES

http://jezebel.com/the-right-to-a-sexual-narrative-on-the-lena-dunham-abu-1654187731?utm_campaign=socialfow_jezebel_twitter&utm_source=jezebel_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

that piece otm

Dunham seems "troublingly averse to adult reflection on her life." That's the root of the careless language, the sloppily assembled memory: that's a matter of the upbringing that made her as successfully self-absorbed as she is

She's apologized for all the misguided comments she's made and also was reflective when discussing how she in the past failed to respect her sister's agency. Maybe she's a "bad person" but idk what to do with that. Should all writers be good people? Much of her writing is about working through difficult issues and personal shortcomings. I'd imagine many other people who don't share as much of themselves are worse.

i do prefer LD to Lorne Michaels; at least she didn't try to turn Rudy Giuliani into a comedian.

youre not hearing a lot of what is being said

xp

I guess i disagree that her unapologetic confessionalism in her writing is equivalent to disavowing responsibility as a human. This is a difficult issue i agree and it's also a running theme on the show.

Regardless of the degree of truth in what she's written in the book, or said in interviews, I think it would be wise to consider all of it part of Her Act. Whether it's an act you can tolerate, or need to limit your exposure to, is an individual matter.

or masturbing next to a sister six years his junior, who he then compares to a hot water bottle

― da croupier, Tuesday, November 4, 2014 1:13 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is misleading again ... She compares her to a hot water bottle not right after masturbaying it years later in writing s memoir where she's trying to make a weird experience seem even weirder

Sorry iPhone corrections

sorry, once again this "misleading" is unintentional. pretend i put the word "describing" between "or" and "masturbating"

not that anyone has expressed actual confusion

as a member of the patriarchy, can i just say i'm glad we were able to find several new and exciting ways to tear this young woman down as a result of this book excerpt

oh ps i left out a word

i meant see? shes a #strongwoman and therefore should not be called out for racism or anything else fucked up, to call her out is anti-feminist and right wing!

(timely)

I am curious what roxy and, I guess, da croup think of the jezebel piece. I'm not pro "all confession is good confession" w Lena any more than w alt lit or Tao Lin. But I think jia makes important delineations in that piece

xxxpost oh no ilx has become the national review

actually people, especially woc feminists, have been talking about her fuckedupedness since wayyy (like years) before the NR piece, but ty for more erasure of that

i'm sure the many people discussing how this reminded of them of their own childhood abuse experiences can also fall back into the comforting warmth of the patriarchy

lol'd when I came home yesterday and my wife had just gotten this book from the library - gonna be a fun read!

Kids masturbate at age 7?

― benbbag, Monday, November 3, 2014 5:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no

― Οὖτις, Monday, November 3, 2014 5:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes. And younger. Children can orgasm that young too.