C/D LENA DUNHAM (THE DEFINITIVE POLL)

Dunham has spent the last year, in her political pronouncements, being a tool of Christine Quinn and Andrew Cuomo. She's about as liberal as Hillary Rodham.

(I know people's definition of "liberal" is generally built around gay rights and abortion, the only two issues that matter -- bombs away and call my stockbroker!)

She's preferable to the guy who started this, who once said that women who get abortions should be hanged.

There are imperfect, compromised figures and then there is the right wing. The latter hate lena dunham for very shitty reasons.

saying that we have to "take sides" is kind of facile, dude

i feel like this conversation will go in the right direction now

you can refuse to participate in (and actively denounce) the obviously sexist right-wing campaign against her without refusing to acknowledge that some of this shit and her attitude about it is pretty messed up xp

sure but the statement makes no sense in this particular context. these things are very clearly not normal and it's not simply a matter of wearing straight ppl goggles

― k3vin k., Monday, November 3, 2014 9:01 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there was a time when being gay was "very clearly not normal"...

deej...

Emily Gould is straight up making fun of "social justice warrior womanists" for their response to this - as if womanist is a corny tumblrism and not a term invented by women of color who felt excluded by white feminism

― jello my future biafriend (roxymuzak), Monday, November 3, 2014 8:27 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah that was completely absurd

anyway a bunch of dudes debating this at 1030 at night probably isn't the best look so imma call it a night

The headlines about this say stuff like "dunham responds to sexual abuse allegations" not "let's take a look, together, at some of the problematic ways dunham framed sensitive topics in her book". The sexist smear campaign is the issue.

deej...

― k3vin k., Monday, November 3, 2014 9:38 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm not saying they're equivalent dude. this is about where society decides to draw lines about moral behavior & accusing a child of being a sexual abuser is, again, a serious charge to level at someone!

^^^^^^^^

http://cdn7.staztic.com/app/a/1261/1261928/secret-code-pebbles-game-918139-0-s-307x512.jpg

Oh great hunangarage is here

hungry for hunan

ok i finally get what the heck lena's being defended from - that this is one of those "does committing an act that can be described as racist/sexist/abusive/etc make you a racist/sexist/abuser/etc" things

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rijpU5yD55I

This is turning into another thing I regret even trying to form an opinion about

heh

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maunbgmgd91qcd94wo3_500.gif

ok i finally get what the heck lena's being defended from - that this is one of those "does committing an act that can be described as racist/sexist/abusive/etc make you a racist/sexist/abuser/etc" things

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 9:49 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean, sort of, if the question is about a memorialist writing about when they were a child

This is turning into another thing I regret even trying to form an opinion about
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Tuesday, November 4, 2014

"She didn't resist" is a particularly weird phrase for lena to use in this passage

If other corners of the internet who disliked her for other reasons have seized on this too, i'm sorry but they are being opportunistic, even if most of the rest if their critique of her is valid

otm. People who already hated LD have been depressingly quick to follow the conservative blogosphere's lead here.

Don't think so. For all of it's flaws, the Democratic Party is supposed to be the party of the unions, the working people.

As an urbanite, I've gotten into far too many arguments with artiste types about not publicly misrepresenting left politics, or outright misunderstanding them.

I understand the left criticism of someone like Dunham. We don't need any more urban wealthy artists attaching themselves to political candidates.

I mean, you go to these people's houses and they read "On Our Backs" and have bondage gear lying around then they support Hillary Clinton and other lukewarm liberals...because they oppose the EVIL ONES, the fundamentalist right that oppresses white women.

This is not the way to win elections. NRO criticized Dunham - they've done far worse to less fortunate people. You write a confessional memoir and then you attach yourself to liberal politics - fair game. Is NR supposed to quit publishing?

wat

I'm not exactly sure what that post is getting at, but Lena Dunham is quite clearly shaking out to be a centrist Clintonite democrat at the core, not a leftist in any sense.

I mean, you go to these people's houses and they read "On Our Backs" and have bondage gear lying around then they support Hillary Clinton and other lukewarm liberals

Oh, THOSE people

Is NR supposed to quit publishing?

let us pray

huh

people, people, if we're talking about her, Lena Wins.

pretty sure no one is winning here

the Democratic Party is supposed to be the party of the unions, the working people.

let me introduce you to 1992.

I think this whole thing is a good example of the inadequacy of twitter to certain situations

certain situations?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/will-white-feminists-finally-dump-lena-dunham.html

I didn't say Dunham was "leftist", I'm not sure how you read that. Urbanites, controversial artists - they are read as "left" by everyone else.

Feminism is, at root, a left movement.

i mean, i don't think of her as a political figure but as a cultural one. the NR hate her because she doesn't conform to their narrow definitions of what women should be like. this whole thing started with their attempt to brand her as a deviant.

they trolled this board good

honestly, to someone like williamson, she is a deviant already. just by being lena dunham, being naked on TV and violating expectations for what women should be like in public. i don't think she is a radical, transgressive figure, but it's clear why she is a lightning rod for the right. we should not participate in their narrative.

centrist democrats are bad fwiw. this issue isn't about that.

also with the "white feminist" criticism, it seems to me that she is literally the only person to be criticized for things like having a show with a mostly white cast. why is she held to this uniquely high standard?

No one who has been given a mass media franchise of his/her own can be defined as a radical, transgressive figure. But when you consider that Dan Quayle made political hay with evangelicals by decrying Murphy Brown in his basic stump speech for months on end, Lena Dunham is nothing but red meat for the reactionary right.

it isnt their narrative

woc activists have stayed calling her out for shit

to say that they are just picking up on this thread is erasure

she is not the only person taken to task for this, come on dude

from the daily beast article:

“A Black woman could not have written what Lena did. She would not have the space to argue context. She would not have anyone championing her. She would certainly not be given some benefit of the doubt about childhood exploration because Black people’s innocence is often denied, even when we’re 7.”

this is an important observation. but the response shouldn't be to subject lena dunham to the same intolerance a hypothetical black lena dunham would face. the way to even it out is to defend black women when their stories are received in racist, uncharitable ways.

also i think the critiques of her not paying performers for her book tour and making insensitive comments to rolling stone and elsewhere are fundamentally different from the calls to brand her as an abuser. the latter seems vicious and unfair.

you seriously dont think that outing someone against their will is abusive behavior?

Treeship you are Lena Dunham and I claim my 5