C/D LENA DUNHAM (THE DEFINITIVE POLL)

i mean idk, ive never read anne sexton, is she problematic

that's really cute d-40 did you read the paragraph

deej have you read any of the links in this thread

probably not or i guess he would have said "lol what's wrong with snl reruns amirite"

I'm literally trying to imagine the family dinner-table conversations about this book prior to publication and...can't.

this isn't how i read her sister's tweets. she(? idk if grace identifies as female so apologies if this pronoun is wrong) frames it in terms of heteronormativity (and tbh the tweets are complete gibberish); she's clearly rationalizing the behavior of her longtime abuser. without knowing more about their specifics than what's been linked itt, it seems pretty textbook

― k3vin k., Monday, November 3, 2014 5:59 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how is that 'clearly' what she's doing? this is a true statement. it serves a good function in some cases of abuse! but (what treeship said)

Grace Dunham @simongdunham · 7h 7 hours ago
heteronormativity deems certain behaviours harmful, and others "normal"; the state and media are always invested in maintaining that

Anne Sexton molested her daughter

that's really cute d-40 did you read the paragraph

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 6:00 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the part about her masturbating next to her sister seems pretty weird. as does their strange manipulative relationship. im not questioning that it's 'weird'

Doing abominable things is NOT "part of being a kid". Why SOME do it, I don't know, but most children do not beat up other kids, punch them or do other horrible things.

The reason we shouldn't overreact to abusive behavior is so that a very young person doesn't think they are doomed to be "bad". They can change their behavior at that age. They shouldn't have to live with guilt if they do change.

How is that different from what I said?

we're not talking about a seven year old we're talking about a twenty-eight year old glibly writing about her dysfunctional-to-abusive relationship with her sister, with multiple anecdotes throughout their life

Except, I guess I don't think the kids who do bad stuff don't do it because they are morally worse people. They don't have the faculty to make rational, ethical decisions. They're different than adults.

that sexton business kind of puts a spin on how i was originally reading this

If it happened why shouldn't she write about it?

Xp da croupier.

we're not talking about a seven year old we're talking about a twenty-eight year old glibly writing about her dysfunctional-to-abusive relationship with her sister, with multiple anecdotes throughout their life

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 6:06 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

doesn't sound like you're arguing with me in that case ... although seeing as neither of us have read the book .. is it glib?

she could exercise a little tact in writing about a bunch of events that could very well have had a profoundly negative influence on her sister's life

If it happened why shouldn't she write about it?

― Treeship, Monday, November 3, 2014 6:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is where we differ ... there are plenty of very good reasons

If I'm not totally repulsed by the excerpts under discussion, is there something wrong with me? Am I abusing Grace Dunham by proxy?

alright as d-40 isn't sure whether "i liked having my sister next to me while i masturbated, she was like a water bottle" is glib (but hey, he already ignored the masturbation bit for a cute anne sexton lol), and treeship doesn't seem to know what the word glib means (why else pretend my complaint is simply that she's writing about it?) i'm gonna tap out

the anne sexton bit was one you singled out.

i think it's fair to say that one should probably read the book for context instead of paragraphs snippeted out by conservative websites and sent sailing around social media to determine if she actually is being 'glib'

did you guys see the paragraph above where she follows the reveal that she'd masturbate next to her sister in bed by comparing her sister to a hot-water bottle

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 11:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

she may have been seven for the pebble business, but i'm pretty sure a seven year old wasn't reading anne sexton next to a one year old who'd pleaded to sleep with her

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 11:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

we'll all have our perspective on just how gross to find lena dunham, but how can you read that paragraph and begrudge someone finding her gross

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 11:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there is ... literally nothing wrong with sleeping next to your sibling and reading anne sexton.

― deej loaf (D-40), Monday, November 3, 2014 11:59 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

basically all i have to say

it was a response to this post

she may have been seven for the pebble business, but i'm pretty sure a seven year old wasn't reading anne sexton next to a one year old who'd pleaded to sleep with her

― da croupier, Monday, November 3, 2014 11:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're implying 'sleep with her' like she meant she wanted to fuck her

i felt that was misleading

and upthread had already said the part about her masturbating next to her sister was weird

definitely ready to tap out of this whole conversation myself at this point, though

you admitted the masturbation thing was weird after i advised you read the paragraph, after the portion in question

'it continued' -- their weird relationship and her manipulative behavior, yes. but touching her sister inappropriately, apparently not

― deej loaf (D-40), Monday, November 3, 2014 5:08 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so, no

I think that if dunham thinks her dysfunctional relationship with her sister is an important part of who she is then it makes sense to write about it in a memoir. Sorry this is circling back to an earlier point

sure.

though just to be clear, all i was imply by the word "sleep" was the word "sleep," and the absurdity of anyone thinking the word seventeen in that paragraph was a typo based on the remainder of the paragraph

xpost sure.

the question isn't whether it makes sense, but whether there could be repercussions for other people in her life, other than herself

xp

deej is "weird" the euphemism you most commonly use for "emotionally/sexually abusive" or is there a particular reason we're using the kid gloves here

Okay, so now this thing is exploding on the Internet. Way to push creepergate 2014 out of the way. Read the "pebbles" story in its full context, I have some sympathy for LD even though this is bullying behavior. Her mom should have shown her one of those drawings they use in Health class, it would have deterred her from committing an abuse.

Still, ICK. I so don't want to read that.

i suspect she was not sexually abusive when she was 17, if that's what you're asking xp

I mean, maybe people didn't read it - LD "wanted to see what it looked like". Self-abuse, too - publishing this stuff about yourself.

emotionally abusive ... she makes it sound like it ... but now we're all psychotherapists deciding who is 'normal' and who isnt, def seems appropriate

https://twitter.com/notallbhas/status/529425029671690240

Yep

Sorry but I have to play this disgusting tweet also: https://twitter.com/emilygould/status/529425645361590272

ENVY OF HER PRIVILEGE

take that poc

Post not play obv

Wow this National Review bullshit has really gotten some traction.

yeah I don't even know what's going on anymore

"transparent envy of her career and privilege"

Um, NO.

At least NR is appropriately evil here. I wouldn't expect anything else from them. Entertaining, robust debate I must say.

as Ian Bogost has mentioned on Twitter, people weren't meant to talk to each other this much

or memoir before they're 30

Not all of us are old enough to relate to being 30.

not all of us are afraid to hear what people have to say

bah sorry, that was kinda nonsensical. basically just mean i think that bogost thing is dumb.

so was my post about not being 30 so I think we're square