White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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(or, personality is the primary explanation for the yield rate)

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

NB I have never seen an ethnicity tick-off form that makes a distinction between "African American" and "Black African" -- they always have one or the other. (Believe me, I notice this distinction, though probably slightly less than my cousins do.)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

Yeah--I haven't either to be honest. Schools usually like to just figure out if you're black, white, yellow, red, or sort of olivey, they don't care about the fine details.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

alright i didnt know where you were pulling the numbers from ally, i just know that brochures do conflate international and domestic students in some brochures when they're talking about 'students of color' or whatever.

My understanding is that the Chicago area contains the largest settlement of african-americans north of the mason-dixon. Thats not percentage but pure numbers. Not that I'm taking sides in the SEARCH FOR THE CAPITAL OF BLACK AMERICA

deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

Many say that the students who offend today aren’t just younger versions of those who were doing racist things on campuses a decade ago or as some campuses first integrated. Rather, they say that today’s students — and the ignorance many of them display — are the products of an unusual time in which minority culture is omnipresent, but more and more white high school students have no significant interaction with anyone of another race.

“We all assume that more progress has been made than has really been made,” says Beverly Tatum, president of Spelman College. A psychologist and the author of Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria and Other Conversations About Race, Tatum says: “While colleges and universities are more diverse today than they were 20 or 30 years ago, that isn’t true for public schools, many of which are more segregated. So you have a lot of young people growing up in racially segregated schools and their only exposure to other groups comes from stereotypes in the media.”

Popular culture gives these students — many of whom are clueless about those who are different from themselves — a false sense of race relations, says Charles A. Gallagher, an associate professor of sociology at Georgia State University who studies white attitudes about race.

“People who are 18 to 20 have been raised in a cultural environment with ‘Cosby Show’ re-runs, hip hop, identifying with black characters, they have gone through the multicultural training — for whatever it’s worth — in school,” he says. “They have the perception that they are not only not racist, but they share a kind of social space with non-whites through the media, so they think race doesn’t matter anymore, which just isn’t the case.”

“These pranks reflect the students’ idea that we are in a post-race society and we can make fun of everyone, and make fun of everything,” Gallagher says. “So they don’t see the difference between a ‘ghetto’ party and a toga party.”

Not only are students unaware of the feelings of minority students, many have so little sense of history that they don’t know instinctively that images like lynching aren’t going to be looked at casually by black people. And for all the talk about how colleges these days focus on multiculturalism, experts points out that most white students never study minority history in a sophisticated way or have any sustained focus on race relations.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/10/27/race

_, Wednesday, 2 November 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

and now i'll go the extra step - is it possible, the general impact aside, that personality does disproportionately impact poor minority populations? are they more disposed, for instance, to go to schools that are less liberal arts oriented/more preprofessional/more generally-prestigious names?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

I have never seen an ethnicity tick-off form that makes a distinction between "African American" and "Black African"

well, school diversity statistics often include International stats, but I would imagine that most schools want to count Caribbean students, say, in both categories

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

my favorite comments-

As a white man, I feel threatened by lots of things: 1) people that watch TV; 2) terrorists; and gangs, to name a few. However, every time I claim that I feel “threatened” by people they tell me that because I am “white” I can take care of myself. (In fact, a black administrator once mocked me because of my fear of TV-watchers!)

(...)

There is an irony that Kuh’s comments are included in an article addressing how stereotypes continue to cause students pain, but yet he stereotypes fraternity members and their actions.

(...)

I don’t think that there is too much “institutional racism.” Instead, there may be clashes of cultures. In my culture it is considered dishonorable to blame others for one’s problems or watch TV and talk about basketball. In other cultures, watching sports, blaming people, or talking about basketball is acceptable. Is it wrong to notice that our cultures differ in so many profound ways ?

PS: I like rap music.

_, Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

My understanding is that the Chicago area contains the largest settlement of african-americans north of the mason-dixon.

and West of the Hudson

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

xposts Tatum is Wes class of '75/76 and her son is '04, btw.

And that's a pretty great book...not that I needed to read it. I got placed into the all-black dorm frosh year (not by choice) and it was always the source of all sorts of uproar from the rest of the student body. One (white) kid actually argued at a forum that he came to the school for diversity and it wasn't fair for kids to be in a dorm where he couldn't see them. As if it was in Siberia and not like across campus. And as if the only reason we came to college was the bring some color into his life.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

Why does he need to see you when you're sleeping anyway, is what I wonder.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

was TO bring. eh whatever

xpost Seriously. "I need to know how they wrap up their hair at night! Dammit...you're taking away my cross-cultural experience"

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

and West of the Hudson

Is this actually true? I got my stat from Upski Wimsatt so it could be wrong, but I'm interested.

deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

I just have to say I'm happy I got through Harvard before the enforced their stupid "random uppeclass House assignment" policy; the entire point of the houses was that different ones had different focuses/personalities and one reason why a lot of the black students gravitated towards certain Houses (besides the bomb-diggity rooms) was because they DIDN'T go to schools where they got to interact with a lot of other black students. The enforced randomization basically sent the message that enriching OUR experiences was clearly secondary to enriching the experiences of other demographics.

Dan (850 Square Foot Suite Senior Year) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

xpost You don't have to be "international" to slide between those categories, though!

In a total offhand observational stereotyping gesture, I'd say yes: poor minority students do indeed tend to look toward pre-professional tracks more so than liberal arts. It's my experience that poor people of any sort are likely to make that decision, for obvious and healthy reasons: they're going to college to make something of themselves, and are pretty up-front about moderate wealth and social status being involved.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

"as if the only reason we came to college was the bring some color into his life" and "enriching OUR experiences was clearly secondary to enriching the experiences of other demographics"

this is actually the only basis on which the supreme court has found affirmative action in higher education to be valid; thankyew rehnquist/scalia

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

The enforced randomization basically sent the message that enriching OUR experiences was clearly secondary to enriching the experiences of other demographics.

very possibly right, but what if they had different ideas about what would enrich your experience?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

Well, clearly they DID have different ideas about what would enrich our experiences; I don't want to directly attribute the damming quote to him because I'm not 100% sure he said it but I remember the dean of students at the time basically saying, "It's too bad that the minority populations on campus are retreating to familiar, safe ground by segregating themselves from the other students." Given the private school/raised in white suburb demographic amongst the black students, this was kind of a baffling and retarded comment seeing as we hadn't all been bused in from random predominantly-black areas around the country.

Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

Is this actually true? I got my stat from Upski Wimsatt so it could be wrong, but I'm interested.

in absolute 2000 numbers, NYC has twice the black population of Chicago. maybe there's something different if you start looking at different metro definitions, but i doubt it.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

Well it'd be nice if the students' stated opinions were taken into account in what was going to enrich their experience, don't you think?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

Lots of things would be nice.

discus (dr g), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

Dan Perry OTM

The main rebuttal of "why are all the black kids sitting together" is "well, why are all the white kids sitting together?" Just because there are less of us doesn't mean we're not just sitting with our friends like everyone else. Just because we all look the same (though we really don't) doesn't mean we are. My all-black table actually had a token, my white friend Aaron from HS, and it used to baffle the shit out of everyone. For whatever reason.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

Yeah geez and why aren't their more white kids in black frats?

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

Yeah geez and why aren't there more white kids in black frats?

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

Sleep dep has never fucked so much with my spelling skills.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

I read those posts backwards and was disappointed to see you hadn't originally asked why there weren't more white kids in black farts.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

Well it'd be nice if the students' stated opinions were taken into account in what was going to enrich their experience, don't you think?

Heavens, no.

Austin Quigl3y (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 20:58 (twenty years ago)

If I had been white friend Aaron I would've introduced myself as Marisa Tomei.

Air America (used to?) air a commercial insinuating that not allowing a white kid into a black frat would be wrong because any form of discrimination is bad, yet another case of blacks huddling into separatist comfort zones.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

Yeah geez and why aren't there more white kids in black frats?

Because they always break the canes during step routines?

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

http://www.ssaland.com/Halloween/images/One-wild-and-crazy-yoda.jpg

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

OH MY GOD

Dan (I Have Lost My Shit) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 22:16 (twenty years ago)

Why do people not worry when like, Asians all sit together at the same table?

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

http://espn.starwave.com/media/motion/2005/1030/rm1v_thumbnail_big.jpg = http://motion-lotion.com/music/k_honda/images/mb5_maggotbrain.jpg

Obv.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

ATTN DAN PERRY

YOU MIGHT'VE MISSED THIS ON ESPN.COM

http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=mike%20tyson&page=multimedia&multimediaCount=15

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 22:56 (twenty years ago)

Why do people not worry when like, Asians all sit together at the same table?

because white people don't need to be liked by Asians

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 23:11 (twenty years ago)

Some of these might be pics from that party but mostly they look too cool to be Chicago students.

Paul Eater (eater), Thursday, 3 November 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

http://www.lunacynet.com/league/images/s3_lazarou.jpg

RACISM AT HALLOWEEN!

My friend (of indian descent) went as a grand-wizard. He got my other friend's mum to make the white hood for him.

dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 3 November 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

why wasn't anyone pissed about all those kids dressed up as ghosts? that's inexcusable, they're making fun of the dead!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

thats clever, what you did

_, Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

When did ethan turn into gareth?

KSTFUNS (Ex Leon), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

did you get my depressing postcard from lanfortshire?

np: vioxx ~ waterfalls of ecstacy (2 bad mice remix)

_, Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

x-post: when he quit using apostrophes?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

gareth used apostrophes too, back in the day

_, Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

Why aren't the witches offended by halloween?

Am I right, folks?

deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

i suddenly regret making that joke

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

who couldve guessed youd regret a joke equating black people with dead people

_, Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

No one cares if Mexicans all sit together at a table, either.

Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

How about Peruvians?

discus (dr g), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

"You forgot about Poland!"

Dan (Obligatory Bush Quote) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

opening up a can of worms i'm sure, but ethan how come you don't make any distinction between a person being racist and just not being sensitive re: race issues? honest question.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)


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