yeah I think you really screw yourself if you don't have *some* play t3, given that that's what this format revolves around
― iatee, Friday, 31 October 2014 13:46 (nine years ago) link
i think there are enough good cards at 4, altho it is easy to fall into the trap of neglecting t4 in between the major morph turns. but yeah good 2 drops are hard to find. one of the inherent advantages of a more aggressive deck is that it forces you to have a curve, and you're not skipping your early turns just because you have a stack of powerful cards and you hate wasting a spot on gdman wetland sambar
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 31 October 2014 13:54 (nine years ago) link
haha I won a draft w/ a 5 wetland sambar deck the other day
― iatee, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:01 (nine years ago) link
I'm starting to think the 0/4 Outlast for B is even better than I thought. You don't often play anything turn 2 so you can usually Outlast 'em right away and if you do it twice you get a 2/6 which is pretty much a brick in this format. Plus it's a Warrior, it makes Treefolk sorcery real good, and gives you a Raid trigger for a turn 2 Mardu Skullhunter
― Abstinence Hawk (frogbs), Friday, 31 October 2014 14:21 (nine years ago) link
yeah it's solid, so is the 0/5 pinger wall
― iatee, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:24 (nine years ago) link
agreed on both. and that they are 2 of the better early drops tells you about the general quality on offer. one problem with the B 0/4, and really with injury to an extent, is that early black is otherwise pretty bad. skullhunter is your only other good black common at 1, 2 or 3 and even that is an awkward card. black seems to be better as a third or splash colour.
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:49 (nine years ago) link
yeah skullhunter is underwhelming, you often have to hold on to it to get the raid trigger, and it feels like a one for one so often because a later-game 2/1 is just dead
― iatee, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:52 (nine years ago) link
or you just need a 2 power blocker. the saddest skullhunter is they have face down morphs, you have nothing on board, you play your 2/1, tapped, no trigger
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:56 (nine years ago) link
skullhunter isnt great but i think people undervalue how effective hand disruption is. like a) the average cmc of most peoples decks is higher than in other formats b) people are often cheating by one or even two mana sources s c) morphs mean that people will not play cards from their hands as quickly all of which means you are v likely to get a relevant card off the raid trigger and that its not a terrible turn five play in conjunction with another card. i think the biggest downside to skullhunter is that it comes into play tapped
ancestor and skullhunter being p reliable wheels is one of the big reasons that i am drafting black in almost 80% of my drafts
― ≖_≖ (Lamp), Friday, 31 October 2014 15:07 (nine years ago) link
I feel like the mind rot card is above average in this format for that reason
― iatee, Friday, 31 October 2014 15:09 (nine years ago) link
just read that PV piece
"Dead Drop, which Owen's team says is the third best uncommon [...] and Trail of Mystery, which Ari Lax's group thinks is a first-pick bomb"
the first one is surprising, the second is totally wtf for me. i don't think i have seen that card played even.
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 31 October 2014 15:37 (nine years ago) link
There's a guy at my LGS who tries to make Trail of Mystery work. the problem is there isn't really a "morph deck"; Secret Plans is not very good and there aren't a lot of cheap unmorph dudes. I don't think it's a bomb.
Dead Drop is very good; I think Falconer, Murderous Cut, and Arc Lightning are all better but 3rd best isn't that out of line.
The card I'm curious about is Molting Snakeskin. Aggro isn't really a great strategy in KTK but this card at least helps you bust through all the 0/5s. I haven't played it outside of desperation but I wonder if it's secretly a good Mardu card.
― Abstinence Hawk (frogbs), Friday, 31 October 2014 15:44 (nine years ago) link
I played 2 copies in an aggro dimir deck, mostly because I didn't have anything else for those 2 spots, but it actually worked really well
― iatee, Friday, 31 October 2014 15:45 (nine years ago) link
I'd say Sultai Scavenger is a pretty good black common
― Abstinence Hawk (frogbs), Friday, 31 October 2014 15:45 (nine years ago) link
removal is bad and slow in this set, so unless they have injury you can often find a spot to get it on a guy
Pretty sweet Trail of Mystery/Villainous Wealth deck with double Dead Drop from Reid Duke here:
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-reiderrabbit-khans-of-tarkir-draft/
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Friday, 31 October 2014 16:47 (nine years ago) link
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Crux-of-Fate.jpeg
block narrative alert. all dragon 3rd set.
― Roberto Spiralli, Sunday, 2 November 2014 22:25 (nine years ago) link
we've basically known for months that the 3rd set is called dragons of tarkir
― ciderpress, Monday, 3 November 2014 00:52 (nine years ago) link
so my friends are organizing an old school league w/ the following guidelines:
legal sets:Fallen EmpiresHomelands4th+5th EditionIce AgeAlliancesChroniclesMirageVisionsWeatherlightTempestStrongholdExodus
Banned:Anything on the legacy/vintage banlistsAnything over $5 tcg mid (wrath of god is one exception)
who wants to help me break this format? I feel like the bans and relatively large card set really push sligh, which I think is gonna be the #1 deck. so what beats sligh?
is turbostasis viable?
another thing I was thinking - that wasn't playable at the time due to chronicles not being in standard - is mono-blue tron w/ whispers of the muse, disk, all the counterspells ever. is tron playable w/ no land-search?
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:15 (nine years ago) link
no urza block is fucking up everything cool i think of for this
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:28 (nine years ago) link
yeah we decided against it on purpose
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:29 (nine years ago) link
i think all the top non-sligh decks from this time period had cards that are banned in legacy now
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:29 (nine years ago) link
otherwise it's just like, urza's block constructed plus hymn and bolt and swords xp
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:30 (nine years ago) link
yeah not across the board but a handful
prosbloom seems a little slow but most of the cards are available
cuneoblue is more or less what I was thinking w/ my urza's deck and almost everything there is available. it does seem soft to sligh.
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:31 (nine years ago) link
monoblack minus necro seems ??? obviously hymn and ritual->specter is pretty great, but is that enough? can hymn fit into any other build?
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:33 (nine years ago) link
there's not even anything good to natural order for in this format, is there?
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:37 (nine years ago) link
haha yeah green just seems not even worth considering on any level, maybe if oath was available
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:38 (nine years ago) link
if you really think everyones going to play sligh then i think you play white weenie with 4 CoP Red
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:43 (nine years ago) link
I feel like ww is so bad even then, like your creatures just aren't relevant enough. maybe a variant w/ 4 geddeons?
monoblue can play like 4 hydroblasts, 4 red elemental blast
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:46 (nine years ago) link
too bad cataclysm is $10, damn you edh, this deck looks fun otherwise
Matt LindeWinner, US Nationals 19983 Nomads en-Kor3 Paladin en-Vec4 Soltari Monk4 Soltari Priest1 Soltari Visionary4 Soul Warden4 Warrior en-Kor4 White Knight1 Aura of Silence4 Cataclysm3 Disenchant4 Empyrial Armor4 Tithe17 Plains
Sideboard:1 Afterlife3 Abeyance3 Aura of Silence1 Disenchant1 Soltari Visionary2 Spirit Link2 Tariff2 Wrath of God
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:49 (nine years ago) link
sands of time/equipoise is another combo deck that's in this format. not sure what the shell of the deck was though, i'm having trouble finding good decklists from that era. also not sure if its better or worse than pros bloom
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:53 (nine years ago) link
i think i like equipoise more b/c it lets you play a UW shell with wrath and/or fow
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:54 (nine years ago) link
i guess fow isn't legal though hah
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
oh I like that one hmmm...
yeah there's also enduring renewal + goblin bombardment but a 3 card combo deck
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
in a WR shell
seems bad
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:56 (nine years ago) link
countersliver would be fun but i dont know if it beats the red deck without worship
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 15:59 (nine years ago) link
also the mana is sketchy without duals
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:00 (nine years ago) link
yeah countersliver seems like it really needs a. good mana b. the counterspells that happen to be banned
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:01 (nine years ago) link
if it was me i would probably just try to build a prosbloom deck because it's fun and even if you're losing you get to play with squandered resources which is one of the all-time great magic cards aesthetically
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:07 (nine years ago) link
I'm probably gonna build two decks and at least one of them will probably be around these lines. I feel like this type of control deck loses the least from not having fow.
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mf111
Main Deck60 cards
18 Island4 Quicksand4 Stalking Stones26 lands
1 Rainbow Efreet1 creature
4 Counterspell4 Dismiss2 Dissipate3 Forbid4 Force Spike4 Impulse3 Mana Leak1 Memory Lapse4 Nevinyrral's Disk4 Whispers of the Muse33 other spells
Sideboard2 Capsize1 Grindstone4 Hydroblast4 Sea Sprite4 Wasteland15 sideboard cards
14 Island4 Quicksand3 Svyelunite Temple1 Winding Canyons22 lands
2 Dancing Scimitar4 Steel Golem6 creatures
2 Argivian Restoration3 Capsize4 Counterspell4 Dismiss2 Disrupting Scepter4 Dissipate3 Mind Stone4 Nevinyrral's Disk2 Power Sink4 Whispers of the Muse32 other spells
Sideboard1 Amber Prison3 Dream Tides1 Essence Bottle4 Hydroblast2 Jester's Cap2 Knight of the Mists1 Rainbow Efreet1 Steal Artifact15 sideboard cards
15 Island4 Mishra's Factory1 Plains2 Quicksand2 Soldevi Excavations3 Thawing Glaciers27 lands
4 Ghost Ship3 Wall of Air7 creatures
1 Circle of Protection: Red4 Control Magic4 Counterspell4 Dissipate4 Force of Will2 Inspiration4 Nevinyrral's Disk2 Political Trickery1 Recall26 other spells
Sideboard3 Blue Elemental Blast1 Circle of Protection: Red1 Disenchant4 Disrupting Scepter2 Energy Flux1 Giant Tortoise1 Plains1 Political Trickery1 Steal Artifact15 sideboard cards
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:07 (nine years ago) link
yeah prosbloom is fun for sure, that might be my other
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:08 (nine years ago) link
also might be soft to sligh though, which really gets a lot of good cards w/ this period...
like, half my life, half my life, fill your hand with fireblasts
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:12 (nine years ago) link
i think prosbloom has to be built pretty different for this format - you have access to a lot more draw spells, meditate is one that comes to mind
― ciderpress, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:19 (nine years ago) link
looking into it, I think the 6th edition rules change is the biggest problem. you can't go into negative life during a phase anymore, so vs a red player w/ open mana...
also no vamp tutor hurts
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 16:21 (nine years ago) link
what about some u/w tempo deck
something like:
4 swords4 spirit link4 memory lapse4 mana leak4 soltari priest4 soltari monk4 savannah lions4 order of leitbur4 armageddeon
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 19:34 (nine years ago) link
other options...disrupt, curiousity, island sanctuary, sapphire charm
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 19:38 (nine years ago) link
brainstorm plus the uw mirage fetch
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 19:39 (nine years ago) link
abeyance
― iatee, Monday, 10 November 2014 19:40 (nine years ago) link
went 5-0 at FNM last night with a Temur Monsters deck I've been working on for the last several weeks. It's a lot of fun to play with hasty or hard to kill creatures like knuckleblade, stormbreath, boon satyr, and ashcloud phoenix backed up with counters and burn, although I'd say it's a bit shy of true tier 1 deck. I faced several control variants which are pretty favorable match ups for me. Dropped a game each against UB control and Jeskai aggro in the final round and 2-0ed BW Control, a Mardu build, and Sultai control with Villainous Wealth. Definitely going to stick with it for now and see how it does.
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Saturday, 15 November 2014 17:23 (nine years ago) link