jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

Today's Google doodle: Jonas Salk's 100th birthday

https://www.google.com/logos/doodles/2014/jonas-salks-100th-birthday-5130655667060736-hp.jpg

Ugh, I posted yesterday on FB about the measles outbreak and disneyland and am now in an argument with a)an old friend (she was my wife's maid of honor) who is an anti-vaxxer (both of her kids got whooping cough), and b) a college acquaintance who is a UFO nut.

Out of perverse curiosity, what did the first friend say *about* the fact that her kids got whooping cough.

Well, they got it a couple of years ago (and both have occasional breathing problems even now), but, hey, they both lived, right? So no harm, no foul!

And whooping cough is generally transmitted via fluoridated water, iirc.

the ignorance is just breathtaking.

The amusing thing is, I posted in the first place not just because I hate anti-vaxxers, but because I'm traveling to Anaheim in April and now need to ask my doctor if I need a measles booster, since I last had a measles vaccine maybe in my 20s. The first response was from a friend mentioning Jenny McCarthy. Since that, here are all of the anti-vaxxers posts:

Jenny McCarthy has absolutely no bearing on whether I choose to vaccinate or not, and the anti-vaxxers are appalled that everybody thinks that we are blindly following her. Her science is seriously flawed. (I.E. lack of science whatsoever).

If you promote vaccinating children and you haven't gotten boosters in decades, you are part of the problem.

I love that one - I'm part of the problem for not getting regular boosters against a largely eradicated disease, to protect myself from ignorant people.

It's presumptuous to think that all doctors (with medicine AND science on their sides) vaccinate on schedule all recommended vaccinations. We've had three doctors that shared not vaccinating their kids. One was close to schedule but what is called "slow pokes" at a very delayed schedule, one was super-selective about which ones and the other was none.

UFO nut: How are vaccinated people threatened by non-vaccinated people? Allegedly if you're vaccinated you should be immune, right?

Anti-vaxxer: None of the vaccinations are 100% effective, most need boosters later in life to maintain immunity, and there are millions of people who are somehow immunocompromised and unable to receive vaccinations, not to mention babies or very young children who are too young for certain vaccinations.

UFO nut: If they're not effective and they have risks associated with them then why get them. Can't people choose what they put into their own bodies? Freedom of choice? I'd like to see what percentage of those that contract a disease were vaccinated for that disease. It would also be nice if there were no risks associated with them. Sadly, there are.

Anti-vaxxer: The rates of death or serious side effects from these diseases here in the US is a lower number overall than the entire population of my one medium town here in Ohio. The chances of contracting the disease are fairly small and the chances of having serious complications is even smaller. Vaccine injury is very real. Vaccinations purposely deliver heavy metals and other substances into a body that are toxic at certain levels. Sure, a vaccination might not be toxic to most, but how do you know what body systems have underlying issues due to vaccinations? Nobody would ever agree that purposely putting murcury in your body is okay, but there are trace amounts of thimerasol in a number of vaccinations, and then we expect a 15 pound baby to get four of them in one visit and for their body to somehow manage all the unnatural chemicals in the vaccinations. The rates of asthma, allergy, auto-immune diseases and cancer have increased exponentially since we started injecting and spraying our foods, our home lawns, using so many medications and allowing other pollutions to continue. The rate of asthma is higher in the inner cities than the country.

[UFO nut], you can often find statistics in random newspaper articles about outbreaks. This particular Disneyland outbreak is approximately 75% unvaxxed and 25% fully vaxxed. Measles overall is quite safe as far as diseases go - like chicken pox, you're pretty ill for a while and then usually get better. Before the vaccination for measles, less than 1000 in the US died from it every year. That's where the balance comes in - inject toxic chemicals for the greater good or don't.

. . . at which point I whipped to post-hoc fallacy and the LD50 for thimerosal on her. No response yet.

Anti-vaxxer: None of the vaccinations are 100% effective, most need boosters later in life to maintain immunity, and there are millions of people who are somehow immunocompromised and unable to receive vaccinations, not to mention babies or very young children who are too young for certain vaccinations.

THAT IS AN ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF VACCINES what the hell ;alksdjfl;askdj;lkasdjkdkdkdkdkdkd

The rate of asthma is higher in the inner cities than the country.

I love how this is just casually thrown in there totally devoid of context

you can often find statistics in random newspaper articles about outbreaks.

oh, thank god

murcury

And whooping cough is generally transmitted via fluoridated water, iirc.

― Ronald Raisins (Old Lunch), Friday, January 23, 2015 1:39 PM (1 hour ago)

and CHEMTRAILS

Um, on the brighter side, Phil, if you're in Anaheim in April let me know, as I don't live too far away by freeway.

https://i.imgflip.com/akjw2.gif

xp my wife and I will be out there 4/14 - 4/19 for -- wait for it -- Star Wars Celebration at the Anaheim Convention Center. <---pvmic

asfhklghf;hnjdg;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/30/amid-measles-outbreak-anti-vaccine-doctor-revels-in-his-notoriety/

in a lot of other countries this dude would probably be in jail, as would parents of children who refuse to get them vaccinated

Amid this outbreak, Wolfson actively urges people to avoid vaccines. “We should be getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, these are the rights of our children to get it,” he told the Arizona Republic. “We do not need to inject chemicals into ourselves and into our children in order to boost our immune system.” He added: “I’m a big fan of what’s called paleo-nutrition, so our children eat foods that our ancestors have been eating for millions of years…. That’s the best way to protect.”

someone should beat him over the head with a tree branch, that would be very paleo.

when paleo bros start to get a little too off the chain i like to joke to myself "is low infant mortality paleo?" and i guess he kind of called my bluff huh

Someone needs to send him to a cemetery to look at the birth and death dates of some of our more recent ancestors, see how many of them are < 5 years, and tell him how many of those were measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox.

yeah whenever i hear this anti-vax assholes i think of the pre-20th century cemetery near where i lived in CT and how each family plot seemed to have several tiny gravestones for children who died in their first five or six years.

xpost

wow, kismet i guess. :(

although maybe he's secretly a malthusian?

framing disease transmission as a "right" is legit creepy

feel like there's some unstated 'survival of the fittest' bullshit with that creep, like 'do you even survive measles bro?'

I think I'll start eating that food that doesn't have any chemicals in it. Do you get that at Whole Foods, or . . . ?

IIRC he eats only prairie grass that grows up between the cracks of the sidewalk

newsflash: human bodies are composed of chemicals

Wolfson himself came to his anti-vaccination stance late in life. “I’m the son of a cardiologist,” he told The Post. “I was trained to believe in the power of vaccines…. And going through school, as a medical student you don’t question anything. You don’t question what’s going on.” Then in 2002, Wolfson, originally from Chicago, moved to Arizona where he met his wife, a chiropractor, who “opened my eyes.”

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CulMybUv-zI/UqLtzZqT7ZI/AAAAAAAAPRg/XpxRUYmvngk/s1600/neo.gif

chiropractic is a good example of a kind of psuedo-scientific bullshit "medicine" that a lot of smart people seem to believe in or at least tolerate b/c it seems harmless (and indeed some chiro treatments might do some good, but it's not because the underlying theory isn't bunk).

one of my mom's friends has a daughter-in-law who didn't want her kids to be vaccinated. it's a good thing i didn't know this when i saw her at a holiday party, because i think these folks deserve the strongest contempt and ought to be publicly shamed whenever possible. that said, i kind of /understand/ the mentality, but for an education person it's still contemptible.

educated

Paleo anti-vax
http://media.giphy.com/media/gMHTtIYrabA6k/giphy.gif

I honestly fail to see how this isn't child abuse and, more generally, a prosecutable crime with regard to endangering the welfare of the public-at-large.

I agree but ... is endangering the public welfare an actual crime?

I work almost exclusively with people with autoimmune diseases and who take immunosuppresive drugs and I am getting so many phone calls about the measles epidemic. They're more susceptible because of their immune suppression and they can't get boosters because the MMR is a live vaccine.

xxp There are only 6 states in the US that do not allow some criminal and civil exemptions from the law for parents who choose faith healing over medicine. You think they're going to get up their asses about vaccines?

I agree but ... is endangering the public welfare an actual crime?

― Οὖτις, Friday, January 30, 2015 2:31 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Charge them with bioterrorism imho.

xxp There are only 6 states in the US that do not allow some criminal and civil exemptions from the law for parents who choose faith healing over medicine. You think they're going to get up their asses about vaccines?

― Οὖτις Δαυ & τηε Κνιγητσ (Phil D.), Friday, January 30, 2015 1:42 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

which are those 6 states btw?

Assuming the info I'm looking at is the most recent (viqa http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=24), they are: Massachusetts, North Carolina, Nebraska, Maryland, Oregon and Hawaii.

Idaho, Iowa, Ohio, West Virginia, Louisiana and Arkansas are the most lenient. They allow faith-healing parents to claim a religious exemption for prosecution from negligent homicide, manslaughter and capital murder!

In conclusion, fuck America.

man, moving to Hawaii gets more appealing every day.

From a legal standpoint, forcing people to vaccinate is a tough sell. There's a long and well established legal precedent that nobody, government or private individual, can force a medical procedure on you without your consent. In cases where that has been ignored you get things like forced sterilization of women of color in North Carolina or the Tuskeegee Experiment.

I generally scoff at slippery slope arguments and legal absolutism and my god anti-vaxxers make me furious but requiring someone engage in an unwanted medical procedure does not feel good to me.

i think coupling that with the already stressful aspect of giving a kid a shot...yeah it's not good.

unfortunately OTM

There could be a poll for "thread title that predicated the next major world disaster"...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/as-measles-spreads-in-us-so-does-anxiety.html

ugh the single loony anti-vaxxer on my fb timeline is a formerly cool Brit who is now somehow living in Idaho and banging on about 'real food' all the time

A random old lady at the bus stop told me to keep Ivy away from other children because of measles.