Point 3: The main arguments against permitting same-sex couples to marry are moral and biblical. The problem, especially for conservative Christians who oppose the legalization of gay marriage, is that they are speaking to people who don't accept their moral code, or biblical instruction. They cite Genesis 2:24: "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh." That verse is also quoted by Jesus in the New Testament.
Here's why invoking verses from the Bible isn't working. In addition to the courts having abandoned such instruction, along with, in too many cases, the Constitution that is supposed to constrain government, a growing number of people no longer accept biblical teaching. Many, the products of liberal universities, also regard the C
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 October 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
Paywalled, apparently. That link redirects to the Sun front page. xp
― warning, #4 can't be unseen (WilliamC), Saturday, 11 October 2014 15:59 (nine years ago) link
But I found it at his website.
― warning, #4 can't be unseen (WilliamC), Saturday, 11 October 2014 16:00 (nine years ago) link
It's at the Sun too; you gotta go to the opinion section.
The suspense will kill you.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 October 2014 16:02 (nine years ago) link
having abandoned... the Constitution that is supposed to constrain government
Read the establishment clause of the first amendment, fool.
― Aimless, Saturday, 11 October 2014 17:03 (nine years ago) link
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/bal-the-supreme-courts-nonruling-on-gay-marriage-commentary-20141010,0,2617179.story
If a news link is behind a paywall, put some of the text in quotes and plug it into google.
― abanana, Saturday, 11 October 2014 18:00 (nine years ago) link
it's kind of fascinating how egregiously bad his argumentation is
― j., Saturday, 11 October 2014 18:26 (nine years ago) link
i love the blame laid on 'liberal universities', like the widespread modern fact of the individual right to live one's own life is not like, way more important, and actually american
i would love to see a more naked argument that appealed to authority without the indirection wrt religion and tradition and anarchism and pitted individual liberty against the contention that no, you are not allowed to live your life as you choose, that will be decided elsewhere, in advance
a few years ago some old college friends and i friended each other on facebook and they've since become (revealed as) super catholic and pro-life, but minimally trying not to be offensive about it, and one of the most disturbing things i've ever heard from them is the catholic idea of 'teaching authority', as a thing that some things (whatever, jesus, the church, the bible as interpreted by the church, the pope) have or must have, and as a thing that any other source of life-direction is deluded and helpless without
like jesus what the fuck happened to america man, these people were raised in the same crazy brew of rampant social atomization as everyone else
― j., Saturday, 11 October 2014 18:33 (nine years ago) link
Rereading T.S. Eliot at the beginning of last week I found the same sad shaking of the head, this collapse in a belief in authority.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 October 2014 18:34 (nine years ago) link
Meanwhile in loonville
http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2014/10/abbott-texas-gay-marriage-ban-reduces-out-of-wedlock-births/
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 October 2014 21:19 (nine years ago) link
The county near me in Idaho (one of the two that went for Obama in 2008) is the first to issue marriage licenses in the state. One of the women in this photo let me take the old 1950s hair dryer that was near their dumpster:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/us/politics/supreme-court-lifts-stay-on-same-sex-marriages-in-idaho.html
― joygoat, Sunday, 12 October 2014 00:21 (nine years ago) link
xp wow that's some pretty advanced nonsense. this brief is one of those things people a hundred years from now are going to put in textbooks as examples of how uncivilized we were
― i'd rather be arrested by you folks than by anybody i know (art), Sunday, 12 October 2014 00:57 (nine years ago) link
"were"
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 12 October 2014 02:21 (nine years ago) link
Mm.
Anyway, Alaska:
http://www.adn.com/article/20141012/federal-judge-rules-alaskas-same-sex-marriage-ban-unconstitutional
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 12 October 2014 23:13 (nine years ago) link
Okay, Arizona's in
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/breaking_federal_judge_appointed_by_bush_strikes_down_arizona_same_sex_marriage_ban
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 October 2014 15:24 (nine years ago) link
In the 'zona!
― Eric H., Friday, 17 October 2014 15:28 (nine years ago) link
Meantime this post:
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2014/10/sixth-circuit-court-remains-quiet.html
...brings up something I'd been wondering; namely, if the Sixth Circuit has been going "Er" ever since the Supreme Court turned down the other cases that had reached them. No way of knowing but I am curious.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 October 2014 15:31 (nine years ago) link
come to me
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:37 (nine years ago) link
Wyoming appears to be next, by Monday:
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/gay-marriage-hearing-begins-in-casper/article_c25f4382-bae6-504c-93c1-cd0def51639a.html
A quiet detail there:
About 60 people watched the proceedings, most of whom support same-sex nuptials. In a corner sat Dennis and Judy Shepard, parents of Matthew Shepard, a gay University of Wyoming college student who was fatally beaten in 1998.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 October 2014 15:51 (nine years ago) link
The Great Roberts Punt having its inevitable effect.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Friday, 17 October 2014 18:17 (nine years ago) link
http://images.politico.com/global/2012/06/120626_john_roberts1_ap_605.jpg
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 October 2014 18:18 (nine years ago) link
this facial expression
― Eric H., Friday, 17 October 2014 18:29 (nine years ago) link
Further Arizona update -- AG not appealing so it's done and dusted there.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 October 2014 18:51 (nine years ago) link
And update, Wyoming is in.
http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/judge-strikes-down-same-sex-marriage-ban-in-wyoming/article_7d3d1a03-ac81-5088-b785-ce2eae556b39.html
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 October 2014 20:46 (nine years ago) link
"bull sex"? well, i'd toddle down to City Hall for some o' that.
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/22/don_young_delivers_shocking_speech_to_high_school_crowd_compares_gay_marriage_to_bull_sex/
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 October 2014 15:15 (nine years ago) link
Kansas in yesterday:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-declares-kansas-gay-marriage-ban-unconstitutional-n241166
This leaves Montana and South Carolina as the last states to adjust to circuit court rulings so far.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 17:31 (nine years ago) link
And now Missouri, sorta?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/judge-rules-that-gay-marriage-ban-in-missouri-is-unconstitutional/article_f9e3bd74-d9bf-5337-ba22-88cd5614e59d.html
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 23:27 (nine years ago) link
The other shoe finally drops! 6th Circuit (sadly) upholds bans, this is off to the Supreme Court now:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/06/gay-marriage-appeals-court-ohio-michigan-kentucky-tennessee/15712319/
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 November 2014 21:53 (nine years ago) link
all right now the betting on what Roberts will do gets interesting. Kennedy writing for the majority striking down bans seems inevitable if Roberts dissents in the end.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Thursday, 6 November 2014 22:10 (nine years ago) link
How many states are we up to now? 31?
― Delbert Gravy (kingfish), Friday, 7 November 2014 01:58 (nine years ago) link
33, I think, verging on 36.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 November 2014 02:02 (nine years ago) link
The dominos have fallen very rapidly, haven't they? I don't see how all those thousands of marriages could possibly be undone now by the Roberts court. It would be chaos, pure and simple.
― oh no! must be the season of the rich (Aimless), Friday, 7 November 2014 02:13 (nine years ago) link
So what? Thomas sez if the precedents are wrong, change'em.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 November 2014 03:01 (nine years ago) link
God, how much I strangely want to see that cluster.
― Eric H., Friday, 7 November 2014 03:49 (nine years ago) link
I'm happy for my Scottish friends: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30486804
― one way street, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 20:08 (nine years ago) link
come to me!
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 16 December 2014 20:08 (nine years ago) link
Supreme Court will consider the Louisiana decision next month:
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2014/12/breaking-supreme-court-to-consider.html
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 21:16 (nine years ago) link
No lie: Last week I dreamed that Alfred was engaged my sister but decided to marry me at the last minute instead! Dunno why he wanted to - I was too intimidated to talk movies with him so we just made small talk instead.
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 22:41 (nine years ago) link
(me not being gay was a nonissue btw)
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 22:42 (nine years ago) link
Thread title accurate
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 20 December 2014 06:26 (nine years ago) link
we'd have to get Marlins season tix
― things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 20 December 2014 15:46 (nine years ago) link
According to the ACLU, once the stay is lifted, Florida must recognize all same-sex marriages performed out of state.
This is a great step forward, but to me it was more exciting that the SCOTUS voted 7-2 against Florida's attempt to extend a stay against recognizing gay marriages to Alfred. People who hate gay marriage to Alfred should read the writing on the wall and quake in their shoes.
― oh no! must be the season of the rich (Aimless), Saturday, 20 December 2014 18:50 (nine years ago) link
People who gay marry me will quake in their shoes!
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 December 2014 18:56 (nine years ago) link
Me and Alfred have secretly been already gay married.
― Dej & the Fommly Loaf (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 December 2014 19:00 (nine years ago) link
shh!
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 December 2014 19:10 (nine years ago) link
Who will be the first to demand gay divorce from alfred
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 20 December 2014 23:48 (nine years ago) link
Done and done.
― Eric H., Sunday, 21 December 2014 02:55 (nine years ago) link
I'm surprised Alito left his buddies out to dry
― the farakhan of gg (DJP), Sunday, 21 December 2014 04:29 (nine years ago) link
my name is ALFRED
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 21 December 2014 05:02 (nine years ago) link
Alfred Alito, from the Supreme Critical Court
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 21 December 2014 05:19 (nine years ago) link