Is this the Juno thread?

Yeah, I know - like I said in the Knocked Up thread, the film could've had a scene where she explained that she didn't want an abortion for personal reasons (rather than religious or ideological or whatever reasons), and that would've fine by me, but it didn't even have that. The film simply didn't give her any sort of motivation or justification for keeping the baby, as if it weren't an issue at all.

'tuomas, she considers it. that doesn't mean there's a scene where she "considers it."'

If the film doesn't have any scenes where she considers it, how do you know she does? Can you read the minds of movie charcaters?

-- Tuomas, Friday, February 15, 2008 8:19 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

i love that you think it's possible to split 'personal' from 'ideological' or 'religious' reasons; but anyhoo, you don't need justification or motivation for *not* having an abortion. some people just don't want one because (in her case anyway, one infers) they have a diffuse desire to have a child, they don't want to go through an abortion, and they worry it might mess up their junk, worry they might regret it (which, shockingly, some women do). you make having a kid sound abnormal. allowing all this stuff isn't 'anti-abortion'.

in the deleted scene it's a combination of unspoken stuff (it being a movie rather than a psychological novel), and also seeing the baby's heart beating on a monitor -- or at least, that's how she explains it to rogen. you kind of *can* kind of read the minds of movie characters -- if you relied solely on what they said you wouldn't get what was going on most of the time.

(the weakest thing in the movie, plausibility-wise, is heigl's living situation -- she's financially independent but living at her sister's house, and doesn't seem to have other men in her life.)

you don't need justification or motivation for *not* having an abortion. some people just don't want one because (in her case anyway, one infers) they have a diffuse desire to have a child, they don't want to go through an abortion, and they worry it might mess up their junk, worry they might regret it (which, shockingly, some women do).

And these are not justifications or motivations for keeping the baby? Like I already said, I totally agree that people decide to keep unwanted babies for a variety of reasons, but the movie didn't bother to shed any light on her specific reasons. So I'm not really saying that Knocked Up is explicitly pro-life rather than that the character wasn't very well written.

Hmm, naybe "unwanted" was the wrong word, what I meant is "unplanned".

wokay, i'm back-reading a bunch of stuff on juno. this was andrew sarris's *favourite film of 2007*?????!!!!!! what the shit bro.

I enjoyed this, but I don't really have any interest in defending it. I think NRQ is correct about this not being anti-abortion in itself but actually the fact that there was a baby involved AT ALL didn't quite seem plausible until the last 20mins or so because it was all so cartoonish.

Abortions or lack of them or otherwise, there isn't really any great psychological motivation for anything anyone other than the Garner/Batemen characters. It's glib as fuck and that's mostly why I enjoyed it but also why I can see it being hugely annoying.

oh the film i was saying wan't anti-abortion is the ol' alexander payne film 'citizen ruth' (1996). i don't think this is anti-abortion either ftr, but yeah the plot point in 'juno' of her yucking out on the clinic and therefore deciding against was pretty weak.

garner i bought, but bateman -- i semi-lolled at his line that 1993 was the high point for rock music, but wasn't sure if we were meant to feel his pain a little, if it was even a joek! doesn't he have any bros to tell him that his chances of becoming a rock star in his mid-30s are approx nil and that he's a big skeez?

reminded me of a film only i have seen, the recent terrible gwyneth paltrow-martin freeman-simon pegg-penelope cruz vehicle, 'the good night', in which freeman plays a, yep, former britpop dude-turned-jaded advert-jingle-writer, who, yep, tries to pursue a diastrous 'romantic' dream and fucks up his loveless relationship.

I don't think we were suppose to feel his pain, dude was hella creepy.

The plot point of her yucking out of the clinic was pretty weak, but then again the plot of her going 'yeah I want these two to have my baby' was pretty weak and the plot of her going 'hey I'm in love with this kid' was pretty weak. I suppose the whole point is that she's precocious but not mature enough to make these decisions herself but the characterisation of the parents didn't really help either.

Rly? I thought less "creepy" more "grow up loser", sure it was a bit heavy handed re the rock and roll dream but theres a bit of this jerk in many 30 something guys. a bit anxious with the start, the dreadful phone call dialog etc and just generally trying way too hard, but it calmed down enough and didnt descend into a Superbad like moral cringefest. Lovely little movie.

you don't think scheming on the easily impressed 16-year-old kid who trusts you (as half of a couple) with her kid is creepy?!

he was creepy and 'grow up loser' at the same time.

how in shit did superbad turn into a moral cringefest? i grant you there's a "moral" in there somewhere, but, well, it's done somewhat less cringily than this thing.

Superbad >>>> Juno >>>> Knocked Up

<<<<Eagle vs Shark

NRQ guess so when you put it like that, it just wasnt wasnt what sunk in about him for me. I take it you also liked superbad, such a great start, got me again I cant recall what I found so goddam preachy and odious about the ending of that movie, just lots of groaning and thinking about walking out of this cheesy shit.

Would you have preferred it if they'd just got the girls really drunk and fucked them?

*nods*

Hi Matt of course not, just pwned hard. You KNOW what Im talking about.

Diablo Cody looks and and sounds like Ally's imaginary older sister. Is it just me that thinks this everytime there is an interview. I really wish this movie had been good.

This movie made me shit blood. I think we can all find comfort in that this movie probably marks the end to this decade's obsession with IrOniC PoP CuLTURE rEfRenCEs and CoOl INDie Rock ... it's like one movie can represent an entire decade's worth of culture jumping the shark.

As in, all the "2 cool 4 u" types are going to try as hard as humanly possible not to resemble anything like what this movie depicted.

The Notebook did the same thing.

That one guy that hit it and quit it OTM all the way

Trying to figure out who Juno talks like, going through a list of actresses/characters like Janeane Garofalo, maybe Darlene in Roseanne...

Then it hit me... Christian Slater!

Thought it sucked, btw.

This movie made me shit blood.

Can we declare the hyperbole sweepstakes on this flick officially over?

this movie made me miscarry.

Overall I liked this movie a lot but still think it would be an abomination for it to win Best Pic. Though I haven't seen any of the other nominees, so who knows? Maybe this is the best of them.

you're right, it would be an abortion for it to win Best Pic.

If we're being honest many way worse movies than this have been nominated. Chocolat comes to mind.

...unless it's the Crash of teen preg movies.

(in that case, Jon Stewart will have hosted the two most loathsome Oscar shows evah)

I would take Chocolate and Crash over this movie. I would take a snuff film starring my grandmother, holding a kitten and softly pleading for her life, over this movie.

Let's not go overboard here, people. We all know Crash is the very worst movie ever made.

I fucking hated Crash like it had violated my mother. But Juno makes me more angry.

I feel like half the people posting in this thread take a bad way, way, way too personally. I mean, jesus, don't watch it if it's going to give you an anger aneurysm.

the aneurysm almost happened after the movie, dude.

I just don't see the point in getting so worked up over a shitty movie. I usually just shrug and regret the two hours I wasted, I don't spend weeks feeling angry over it.

Maybe if a person didn't have every other person in their life spend the weeks and weeks asking you, enthusiastically, "have you seen Juno yet?!"

Everyone I know who saw Juno is on the backlash bandwagon, so I get to be the one who sheepishly says "I kinda dug it but I understand the criticism I guess" because it's too slight to defend with any vigor.

People are hating this movie for the rong reasons. They're getting worked up about the "issue" of abortion, when the movie isn't a morality tale or an after-school special. It's a comedy about a singular person in an individual situation. Then they're mad because of all the "indie signifiers", because they are still under the delusion that they somehow possess the magic key to jaded enlightenment and non-mainstream culture, as if these music / artists / or ideals will never cross over. Like, "Hey, other assholes are listening to MY MUSIC, and to add insult to injury, they're thriftshopping too!" Get over it. I don't hear clear arguements against the script, performances, production, etc.

And so, I ask again, what exactly is the bar for Teen Dramedy if not Juno?

I thought it was a nice little movie but it would never have occurred to me that it would be Oscar nomination material.

And so, I ask again, what exactly is the bar for Teen Dramedy if not Juno?

That Hannah Montana/Jonas brothers concert movie. And I'm fine with that.

Also, in my day, we had Good Burger.

Get over it. I don't hear clear arguements against the script, performances, production, etc.

Dude, have you read this thread at all?

how do you separate the script and the movie, espesh in something like juno

Oh, I'll argue against the script, homeskillet.

I'm fo shizz up the spout about the script as well.

And so, I ask again, what exactly is the bar for Teen Dramedy if not Juno?

I'd go with "Freaks & Geeks."

Also, has this already been linked to?:

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/20583820.html#cutid1

("pages" from "'Diablo Cody''s next script"; couple of laughs)

i dunno, i think the entire problem with the movie was the script

yes that fake script was already linked and yes stripper devil is the whole problem with Juno.

To top Juno it's genre we've been offered Good Burger, Freaks & Geeks, and Hannah Montana.

Mmkay.

isn't the genre 'decent but not outstanding story marketed as a quirky little indie outsider in a transparent attempt to excuse literary preciousness and myriad dramatic shortcomings?'

see also: wes anderson, sophia coppela

To top Juno it's genre we've been offered Good Burger, Freaks & Geeks, and Hannah Montana.

Mmkay.

-- Bobbi Peru, Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:24 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Would agree with all three of these.

Plus, y'know, heathersghostworldadvdboxsetofdaria etc etcetc

Daria had a much better soundtrack as well, they played that "You're Never There" tune by Cake once.