Rolling MENA 2014 (Middle East)

somehow i think there's something else about me that might get me beheaded if i were saudi...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israeli-airstrikes-kill-3-top-hamas-commanders-in-gaza-strip/2014/08/21/627e90b8-2930-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

They got these 3, but still nothing more re Deif

except for the zuhri slip of tongue. i think he's dead.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/21/hamas_israeli_teen_kidnapping_militant_group_claims_responsibility.html

thought you'd be talking about this.

well sure, but i knew that from the beginning :P

well I guess they got what they wanted

Hey, finger pointing is counterproductive. I think it's very important to keep the focus on Israel for its disproportionate response to the actions of Hamas designed and intended to provoke just such a disproportionate response.

it was always kinda bizarre bc obv the family that did it was a hamas affiliate. the organization is too decentralized to believe that meshaal himself gave the order. this is just a confirmation about what ppl already knew -- that a hamas affiliate did it, and that hamas approved (at least after the fact).

What a mess.

the real mess are all the ppl who refused to accept that hamas might've had something to do w/ it until hamas themselves told them. is that where we're at now? we only believe things when hamas tells us them?

hmm yeah that link doesn't really say it was directed from the top-down (agree w mordy that Hamas doesn't appear to be an organization that really works that way). is this actually new info?

I thought the culprits had been identified pretty early on as Hamas-affiliates

seems the key distinction is whether they were ordered to do it by senior Hamas officials or if they just did it on their own without anyone else knowing about it.

altho this distinction is kind of moot in light of subsequent events

the real mess are all the ppl who refused to accept that hamas might've had something to do w/ it until hamas themselves told them. is that where we're at now? we only believe things when hamas tells us them?

The response from defenders I've been seeing has been along the lines of "well, everyone knows Hamas is a terrorist organization, nbd."

http://972mag.com/palestinian-teen-i-was-used-as-a-human-shield-in-gaza/95800/

i don't really know what to say. there was this whole narrative that hamas wasn't really responsible bc they were a rogue organization. but hamas praised the initiative from the get-go. i really blame jj goldberg for manufacturing this whole conspiracy that bibi blamed hamas just so he could have this war. (nb certainly it's true that there were other reasons for operation brothers keeper - such as the tunnels, and maybe this supposed anti-PA hamas plot.)

bc they [the family in WB] was a rogue organization

I think Bibi was happy to take advantage of any pretext available, that seems p clear

xp

i figure that if the anti-PA plot is real, there's no way Abbas is going to the ICC over protective edge

The AP wire story makes the admission out to be a big deal:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/hamas-admits-kidnapping-israeli-teens/2014/08/21/6e70b51e-2957-11e4-8b10-7db129976abb_story.html?hpid=z2

Here's part of it

JERUSALEM — A senior Hamas leader has said the group carried out the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank in June — the first time anyone from the Islamic militant group has said it was behind an attack that helped spark the current war in the Gaza Strip.

Saleh Arouri told a conference in Turkey on Wednesday that Hamas’s military wing, the al-Qassam Brigades, carried out what he described as a “heroic operation” with the broader goal of sparking a new Palestinian uprising.

“It was an operation by your brothers from the al-Qassam Brigades,” he said, saying Hamas hoped to exchange the youths for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

Hamas has repeatedly praised the kidnappings, but Arouri, the group’s exiled West Bank leader, is the first member to claim responsibility. Israel has accused Hamas of orchestrating the kidnappings and identified two operatives as the chief suspects. The two men remain on the loose.

Arouri’s admission shows “Hamas has no qualms whatsoever about targeting innocent civilians,” said Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev.

I dont get why Hamas claims responsibility now, and not earlier. But then I don't get Hamas pretty much full stop.

Like Mordy, I think nearly everyone suspected it to be Hamas. But that shouldn't shift the focus away from Israel's completely disproportionate, destructive response.

yes, don't get distracted

there's nothing to see here, etc.

Israel did exactly what Hamas wanted them to do and what Hamas knew they would do

cheers all around for every party being totally predictable

I dont get why Hamas claims responsibility now, and not earlier.

presumably because now it doesn't really matter. If they'd admitted it earlier it would have damaged their positioning themselves as innocent victims of Israeli aggression. Surely this is obvious?

At this point they've won as much of the PR battle with Israel as they could reasonably expect to.

Hi Mordy. Glad you are the one who isn't looking away. Your many remarks about the thousands of Palestinian deaths, IDF using Palestinians as a shield etc ad infinitum were particularly emphatic and balanced.

Outic, you're right.

http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/oyy+my+sarcasm+detector+just+got+somting+_70a47a2b99292f505955c7ff56ddd98c.jpg

at the time it seemed to me like the political situation just got away from him [xps: bibi]. kidnapping children is about as inflammatory as it gets and the public (and cabinet in turn) demanded something big. the charge was of course made that the gov't knew the teenagers were murdered quickly ergo the vigils etc were cynical PR management, but i usually guess on the side of sheer chaos when it comes to the drive for war. but i'm not the closest observer of the scene obv

LBI i think we can agree that we have both been very fair minded + balanced in our comments on this thread

Hamas has repeatedly praised the kidnappings, but Arouri, the group’s exiled West Bank leader, is the first member to claim responsibility. Israel has accused Hamas of orchestrating the kidnappings and identified two operatives as the chief suspects. The two men remain on the loose.

uhh is arouri (whoever he is) trying to get these guys killed?

haha p sure IDF is already working hard on that score

or Mossad. whatever.

or let them know that they're already dead?

idk i'm no good at this great game shit

Mordy,. I try to (and at the same time am duly aware I failed a couple of times, for which I am sorry)

I just don't see why you'd instantly snark about 'yeah don't get distracted', 'nothing to see here', simply because I state that, imho, regardless of if it was Hamas or not having done the kidnapping, Israel's response is disproportionate. And that I would dread it if Hamas claiming this for some would be reason to go all 'ohh it was them after all, makes Israel's actions so much better to understand'. Because it doesn't, and it shouldn't. Not when it is this disproportionate.

Anyway, good evening to you all.

tbf Israel didn't start bombing because the teens were kidnapped, they started bombing because rockets were being fired. Hamas provoked the attack. Israel obliged. Everybody wins.

except all the dead people

well yes of course

kidnapping led to crackdown led to rockets led to bombing led to more rockets led to invasion

it is fairly nauseating how both sides - both Israel and Hamas - view Palestinian people on the whole as little more than cannon fodder for their respective political goals

more hamas motorcycle executions: http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-reportedly-executes-three-collaborators/

nm, i was mislead by the photo. it's from 2012. they were just normal executions.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/did-phone-call-from-mashaal-expose-deif-to-israeli-strike << woah

a friend thinks meshaal did it on purpose bc deif was getting too popular << theories >>

this is usually the point at which everything becomes so shadowy and complicated that I just say fuck everyone involved how can anyone keep track of all these petty internecine squabbles

don't think it's true. it would have been an idiotic move by Deif (and during war), who's been seeked by Israel for years

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-byhMyvKPAEY/U_ZBB9Zc7kI/AAAAAAAAhJ4/TeQ1Xlx2UZk/s1600/caption.png

More disturbing details and photo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/israel-palestinians-trade-fire-2-killed-in-gaza/2014/08/22/b9e4a064-29c5-11e4-8b10-7db129976abb_story.html

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Gaza gunmen killed 18 alleged spies for Israel on Friday, including seven who were lined up behind a mosque with bags over their heads and shot in front of hundreds of people. The killings came in response to Israel’s deadly airstrike against three top Hamas military commanders.

Hamas media said Friday’s shootings signaled the start of a crackdown, under the rallying cry of “choking the necks of the collaborators.” It was the largest number of suspected informers killed by Hamas in a single day since it seized Gaza by force in 2007.

U.S. Journalist Held by Qaeda Affiliate in Syria Is Freed
By RUKMINI CALLIMACHI 56 minutes ago

Peter Theo Curtis, who was abducted near the Syria-Turkey border in 2012 and held by the Nusra Front, was handed over to a U.N. representative, according to a family representative and the Al Jazeera network.

http://www.albawaba.com//ar/أخبار/بعد-إغتيال-ثلاثة-من-قادتها-حماس-تعتقل-العشرات-من-كوادرها-للتحقيق-معهم-598351

Informed sources from the Gaza Strip say the Izz al-Din al-Qassam, the military wing of the Hamas movement, is waging a campaign of arrests in the ranks of the movement's members involving more than 150 members, for interrogation about security leaks.

The sources said that Hamas in a state of internal confusion after the martyrdom of its three leaders Mohammed Abu Shamala, Raed Al-Attar, and Mohammad Barhoum, at dawn on Thursday, and the attempted assassination of the military commander, Mohammed Deif, who lost his wife and his son and daughter on Tuesday.

The sources indicated that the three leaders of Hamas who were killed at dawn on Thursday in Rafah were killed while meeting in a secret underground tunnel at a depth of 30 meters.

The sources said that the Israeli army used missiles and bunker buster bombs with great skill and were able to cause extensive destruction.

The sources indicated that the meeting of the leaders of Hamas in the southern Gaza Strip was in a tunnel under the house belonging to the Kileb family and that the meeting was scheduled to be attended by 9 Hamas leaders, but the raid was carried out after the arrival of the first three leaders.

ISIS takes the Tabqa air base in Syria