Rolling MENA 2014 (Middle East)

i'm so sure hamas would be disgusted by the idea of genocide

fwiw times of israel is huff post style. columnists don't need approval to post.

That's what I figured, given it was a blog, and that it was quickly removed by editors.

i'm so sure hamas would be disgusted by the idea of genocide

well I thought we were suposed to hold a Great Moral Democracy to a higher standard.

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/495251194554494976

interesting discussion of this pub here

lol @ the guy w Livia Soprano avatar

There is an explanation of Times of Israel here: http://www.vox.com/2014/8/1/5959577/the-times-of-israel-published-an-article-on-when-genocide-is

that dude's an editor at TPM!

xp

http://5tjt.com/editors-note/

times of israel is okay in my experience. i generally don't bother w/ the op-eds (unless it's someone i know - rabbi adin steinsaltz wrote something for them recently that i read. i imagine (though i don't know for sure) that they get most of their "scoops" from independent pro-israel watchdog groups (like MEMRI, CAMERA, etc) which do original reporting. esp useful for scoops that come from translating arab press (MEMRI esp specializes in this). sometimes it's the predictable "this week in antisemitic arabic press" but occasionally there are real stories in there that haven't gotten coverage elsewhere. on the right-wing there's also tablet mag (whose staff is actually very diverse politically - i've worked w/ some of them in the past - but is funded by right wing think tank), and algemeiner journal - which was actually my very first journalism job out of high school (!!) - located in Crown Heights. when i worked for them they were a majority yiddish paper and english news tended to be DC focused. now they have a whole israel section that is very popular on the right today. jpost i read many years ago, but i haven't in quite a while. they've really fallen off. haaretz too (obv not right wing) - though i still visit them everyday. forward is another paper i used to work for, but i don't rate their israel coverage at all (their american jewish coverage is good by contrast). al arabiya in english has been very interesting, this conflict is the first time i seriously started reading them. al-jazeera i haven't been reading as much as this year, ever since they switched to America it seems like the coverage isn't quite as good? idk. in israel tho, none of these are really popular (including haaretz). most popular israeli newspapers are yedioth ahronoth (aka ynet - they have an inferior english website), yisrael hayom (free daily owned by sheldon adelson), and maariv (secular iirc - haven't read it in a few years)

Interesting that Haaretz isn't very popular in Israel. I've the feeling that for media outside of Israel, it's by far the number one go-to and link to Israeli newspaper. Definitely the case over here.

spiegel did a little thing about haaretz a few years ago: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/problems-at-israel-s-haaretz-newspaper-without-a-country-a-599005.html
i imagine if anything it has only gotten worse in the interim.

Thanks for that, will read it later!

Sorry for lashing out Mordy I didn't mean to get personal. I'm reading multiple reports alongside this and getting annoyed with the language and tone of them. Like 35 Palestinians died this morning and the headlines are all about this one guy.

― a curious shade of pale (onimo), Friday, August 1, 2014 12:34 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

reminds me of this article I read in the LAtimes a couple days ago about the tunnels.

OMG TUNNELS SO SCARY POOR ISRAEL

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israel-tunnels-20140731-story.html#navtype=outfit

I definitely wouldn't be scared if Hamas built tunnels that reached my daughter's school.

they don't seem to have accomplished much with these tunnels

I mean apart from whatever stuff they've been smuggling *into* Gaza

from what i understand they use the Egypt tunnels to smuggle stuff into Gaza. they were saving the israel tunnels for a good opportunity (rumors i've read was rosh hashana this year, though i don't think that's been verified or anything)

BREAKING: Obama calls for unconditional release of Israeli soldier if Hamas wants to resolve conflict.

Because one captured soldier is worth so much more than 1400 dead civilians, right?

it is to the people who have more planes and bombs

There is every reason to destroy those tunnels, but I admit I'm a tad suspicious of recent "rumors" they were going to be used for some 9/11 style sneak attack. Rumors based on what? Their existence? The very possibility?

supposedly based on interviews w/ captured hamas operatives (iirc from the 150 that surrendered)

http://www.jta.org/2014/07/28/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/report-hamas-planned-rosh-hashanah-attack-through-gaza-tunnels

Obama says it's "heartbreaking to see what's going on in Gaza". Spoken like a true innocent bystander amirite?

http://i.imgur.com/3N8nqnJ.jpg

Is there record the tunnels have been used in kidnappings or assaults on civilians? That seems to be the spectre Bibi keeps raising--"they exist to destroy our civilians, kill our children"--but I've only heard of their use in attacks on the military.

Obviously the intifada haunts the thinking here--"if they suicide bombed then," etc--but has anything like this happened in the last decade?

There have definitely been attacks on Israeli civilians in the past decade, putting aside rockets.

Mordy has anyone verified the Rosh Hashanah plot story? It doesn't seem beyond plausible to me, but so far the only papers reporting it all trace back to that Maariv (the NYPost of Israel, if not worse) report based on an unnamed Israeli military source. So I am hesitant to take it at face value. I mean, the tunnels are there for attacks, no doubt -- it's not like they're smuggling goods into/out of Israel.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. Very sketch story. I think skepticism is advisable.

am I wrong in thinking that the Hamas leadership is about as in control as Boehner is of the House GOP

it's hard to run things from a villa in qatar

Apology from genocide guy: http://5tjt.com/apology-from-yochanan-gordon/

"hey everyone, it's me, genocide guy! just wanted to say 'soz' for the upset"

"can't we all just get along (after I called for your extermination)"

lol gubke

"can't we all just get along (after I called for your extermination)"

― Οὖτις, Friday, August 1, 2014 4:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to be fair, this is a little bit how Hamas sounds at times with its charter, and they don't even say "sorry" they just say "oh that's a historic document" or something.

+ without the "can't we all just get along" part

guys guys there are plenty of historical calls for extermination to go around

some quality rationalizing going on here:

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/inside-torat-hamelech-the-jewish-extremist-terror-tract/

Jewish Hamas, basically

I've been away from ilx for quite some time and missed out on stuff. Outic, you are the artist formerly known as Shaky Mo, no? Are you Jewish? I was wondering if you have ever been called a 'self hating Jew', or got flack or have been harassed because of your viewpoint?

(apologies if that's too personal or brash a question, feel free to answer or not)

I was wondering if you have ever been called a 'self hating Jew'

only by Mordy lol

I dunno who's gonna harass me I don't really hang around a lot of rightwing Jews

Some rando called my wife a self-hating Jew on the internet. It's not something I hear often though.

Haha omg

Got called an anti-Semite for the first time yesterday, in an awkward pub discussion with friends of friends I didn't know. I can shrug it off, it is too stupid. But my Jewish gf/date (it's undecided) again got called a self-hating Jew, for the umpteenth time. In her face. Only because she will not accept 1600 deaths, that this is not the way forward for anyone, that Israel is only perpetuating the conflict this way. She knows better but it affects her nonetheless. Mostly because people expect her to be 'pro-Israel' by default, because she's Jewish.

xxp

All you can do is let that shit roll off. People are mad right now cuz they feel collectively threatened and on the defensive.

Yeah, you are right. I have had a quick learning experience on how gf is in a double bind though. How everyone expects 'something' from her, or perhaps something more than is on the news or on the internet. Only because she is Jewish. She's got friends and family in Israel she is deeply concerned about, but also condemns the violence Israel deploys, the actions that nation is undertaking. As a result she is getting flack from both ends of the spectrum. Which only shows how hard it is for other people to accept not all (Jewish) people are either Zionist or pro-Hamas.

What really depresses me is the thought - or knowledge - that this has been going on for generations now. Seeds to take the extreme side are firmly planted.

on 'liberal zionists' getting shit from all sides: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/aug/14/liberal-zionists/?insrc=hpma

Yes, that is the conundrum of being a Jew with a familial or emotional connection to Israel who is neither "with us" nor "with the terrorists." Some of the lefty people I follow/am friends with come dangerously close to questioning loyalty. I had a good friend ask me, in context of the question, if I was going to "raise my daughter as an American" -- I understand what he meant given that I'm married to an Israeli but it still hurt to be asked. My daughter IS an American.

in context of the conflict, I mean